so what do u guys think about Bonds and the steroid use in general in Pro Baseball? i think they oughta let these guys play if they want, but obviously no more roids, and their records oughta be ripped from the record books, and their stats set back to 0. that seems fair to me, u get to play the game, but your certainly gunna pay for breaking the rules.

also i think that Selig and others should be severly penalized for totally looking the other way when they knew this shit was going on. the tv ratings were through the roof and the attendance money was pouring in becasue everyone wanted to see ball after ball go flying out of the ball park, and they werent about to stop the gravy train, so they totally looked the other way and let the shit happen, and now that the public is all up in their ass they come out and say some shit like, 'we're gunna put the integrity back into baseball'. you know if the situation wasnt brought to the public's attention via the book, 'Game of Shadows', that they would have just let it go on.

also whats the deal with the guy who is heading the investigation into the steroid use being so tied to baseball. dudes name is Mithchell and hes like co-owner of the Red Sox or some shit, plus he works for ESPN. WTF, they could find someone who could be alil more objective. i mena talk about a conflict of interest.

heres a article about it - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189631,00.html

what are your thoughts.

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Its hard to say rip down the records because players have been doing them since who knows when. If they could figure out all records and if the players who hold them did use steroids then they should, but not just the recent ones. As for drug use, almost the same could be said about most pitchers. They probably couldn't throw without the use of pain killers or whatever the extreme it is they take in order to play every night for 100+ pitchers avg 90+mph. Drug use in sports is hard to control, I can't say I agree with it but people basically accept it everytime I turn on the tv or go to a stadium.

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By obiws

(19:57:20) gondee: how does one master the dweeng

I'd say kick em out, no if's and's or but's about it....it's detrimental to the sport and sports in general. But that's just me. If they gotta be wuss's and play juiced then they don't deserve to play at all.

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- KotW -

I say suspend them from the game for a year or two. Think about it, it really doesn't matter THAT much if their stats get wiped, because what if steroids were what seperated them from a World Series win?

Well, I think they should be penalized, and there should be more frequent tests. Also, I don't think their stats should be erased. They may have earned them using illegal means, but even if we erase them, the second best person will still know that someone still beat them, and it wouldn't feel right. Oh yeah, and no hall of fame for them.

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Sarah and Joanne are wrong- this stays in here until it's proven.

Good point Mess but what if the person before them used them too? I don't think its fair to only take recent records away. Steroids aren't a new drug, though there are new types of them.

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By obiws

(19:57:20) gondee: how does one master the dweeng

The whole Barry Bonds fiasco is just such a terrible thing to happen to baseball. Here is a guy who really is one of the best, most dominant hitters ever (especially when that HGH is saturated in his blood), and he is also one of the worst, most bastardly cheaters in the history of sports. I hope he gets indicted by the grand jury they called. If that happens and he is charged with perjury (actual charges and prosecution are nearly impossible, though), there is no way he will get into the Hall of Fame.

I see McGwire, Palmeiro, and Sosa having some trouble getting in there, too. They certainly won't make it on the first ballot. I don't think Bud Selig should strip any records away, if only because that opens up such a can of worms. And even with those numbers there, everyone knows what those guys did, just like everyone knows Gaylord Perry was cheating with a spitball his entire career. Granted, the guy has 4000+ strikeouts, just like all our juicers of the 90s have 500+ homeruns, but we know what helped them reach those milestones.

Like Jimmy said about those guys on South Park: "...jutht a b b bi big f f fu bleep p ppu pbleep!"

I agree with fining and whatever else, for the identified users. Might as well keep their records, though, since everybody else has been doing the same kind of thing.

some funny bonds pics i found

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In terms of stats and Hall of Fame, speculation will not be considered for voters and statisticians... therefore McGwire and Sosa will undoubtedly get in on the first ballot. Bonds is in the same category. His records are clean and his Hall of Fame status is in no jeopardy. What I just wrote has nothing to do with whether or not I think he used steroids or not, I think the answer is physically obvious.

Of course, you have to assume all the greats... Eric Gagne is a steroid user, so is Roger Clemens. Alex Rodriguez, Jason Giambi, Ralphael Palmeiro, Miguel Tejada, Eric Chavez, Adrian Beltre, Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell, Gary Sheffield, and so on all are or were using the drug in some form (I'm not speculating, I have it on good inside information). Ken Griffey Jr and Albert Pujols are 2 I can gladly say aren't, as they are 2 of the greatest to ever play (I have no problem putting Pujols in that "greatest to ever play" category given he's done something no one has ever done to begin their careers).

Basically, so many are culprits, so Bonds this, Bonds that... point the finger at just about every superstar and the result is the same. If it can't be proven, then think what you want, but the stats and Hall of Fame status won't be tarnished.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

If reports ever came out that Clemens was juiced...

I think that steroids should be banned because they enchance a players body without them actually working out. For this reason I feel that steroids should be banned for this reason.

Steroids don't enhance your body without working out. You still have to lift, but they make your body recover faster, so you can have a much more intense regiment.

You can still increase muscle mass with steroids and not working out, but the gains would be very minimal. Roids increase your nitrogen balance greatly, so you're almost always in an anabolic state...as long as you're eating protein, you'll be creating muscle mass.

No shit? I didn't know that. I know HGH will help you create muscle mass without working out, but I thought lifting was required to build muscles with steroids.

HGH barely does shit...you could go somewhere stacking it with strict and precise insulin usage, but at that price (and hassle) you could get enough roids to make everyone in your family tree a beast.

Unless there is official proof(very, very unlikely), the MLB should leave Bonds alone. If they suspended him banned him, or wiped out his stats for something never confirmed, it would raise hell for Barry and his eight fans, but cause even bigger controversy. I believe he used roids, but don't do anything to him, except make sure the Hall of Fame voters come 2012 or 2013 keep him out.

Another note: what makes everyone so certain Pujols is clean?

To be more specific, when you lift weights, your muscles tear. A normal person would generally have to wait 3-4 days after heavy lifting to work on a specific muscle again. Steroids increase your testosterone, allowing your body to recover faster, which means you can work out specific body parts virtually everyday and it allows for your muscles to grow larger than normal due to the high levels of testosterone. If you took steroids and didn't work out, you'd increase testosterone in your body, but you wouldn't become stronger, though you may physically look bigger.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Steroids don't increase testosterone production, they decrease it, why do you think your balls shrink?

All steroids are testosterone, or derivitives of it. Testosterone is produced from a long chain of chemical changes, starting from cholesterol. But steroids are a direct injection of testosterone into your bloodstream. Your body fights back by shutting down it's own testosterone production, thus the testes shrink (to put it in simple terms). That's why people who do steroids have to do it in cycles (ex: 3 weeks on, 4 weeks off, and other types) as a way to help the body get back to making it's own testosterone again. Doesn't make it normal, but helps.

Testosterone increases protein synthesis, so yes, proteins are used much more efficiently causing better recorvery, and most importantly much bigger gains, along with a shit load of fat too (aromitization if I recall that's what the term is, probably wrong) where some testosterone is converted to estrogen too (bitch tits =}). Oh yea, and explosive power for muscle contractions as well...boom! into the outfield.

(and yes, if you didn't work out, you would still get stronger as well as bigger, but of course, nothing compared to what intense workouts and refined diet would yield)

i say kick them out if the game cant be played fair they shuldent play at all

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i'm back but you don't care

You're correct, Alp... I was referring to overall production of testosterone. The steroids "jolt" the body with it, causing super-human growth. I'm still convinced you don't actually become stronger if you took steroids and did nothing else... it just jacks your adrenaline up so high that you can do/lift things more easily than before, but I just call that maximizing what's already there.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Well, I was thinking about it, and yea, you're probably correct that the strength would come from other sources. Totally forgot about steroid rage.

That's why a lot of heavy steroid users balance out the excess testerone with estrogen injections between cycles.

Man, the fucked up things athletes will do to their bodies to win.

Do they? I've never heard of that. I highly doubt that, but if you have some reasoning to back it up I can definately be wrong. Excess testosterone is converted to estrogen (again, to put it shortly - it's not that cut and dry) so there's naturally going to be an increase in estrogen anyway...don't know why they would need or want any more of it.

Let's rephrase that... "Man, the fucked up things athletes will do to their bodies to make millions of dollars and put up big statistical numbers."

I promise it's not about winning, though I'm not taking away anybody's will to win, I'm sure they all want to, but when it has to do with that much money, of course they'll do it. Hell, for most of the guys, it's the matter of either playing at the highest level or just being stuck in the minors.

Under the very, very reasonable assumption Bonds used illegal substances, it's safe to say it began in 1999, the year after McGwire and Sosa had everyone's attention... before that year, Griffey Jr and Bonds were the best in the game, but no one talked about either of them after that, so it seems pretty obvious that Bonds went down that path so he could once again be the best. I mean, it should seem strange that Bonds has never had a year of home runs in the 50s or 60s, but he does have one in the 70s. Law of averages says this shouldn't happen (or the Brady Anderson effect).

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~