Religious any?

[doyle]

I'm just wondering what the religions are like down in Merq-ville.

Myself, I pretty recently renounced Catholicism. My relgious views could be summed up by this:
Pro-Jesus, Anti-Organized religion.
I also only pay attention to what Jesus says in the Bible, and basically I don't feel like the rest matters.
I don't go to Church because I mean, I'm completely against organized religion, it just seems like a giant political tool nowadays. I mean, where does it say that Church is necessary in the bible, more often than not, Jesus talks about the evils of organized religion, Pharisees taking money, etc etc. Church just seems to only reflect the stuff I can't stand, like the old testament, discrimination etc. I just don't want to be a part of that.

What about you guys?

[MESS]

Eh, I don't know what I believe. However, I resent resent towards organized religions, they do great work in the world and are only evil forces when manipulated by evil men. That's not a justification for rejecting them, if we did that, no institutions would exist.

[Griff Simmons Girl]

I'm agnostic... there's not really a god I believe in and no religion I can really trust, so... yeah... I also hate going to church on Sudays, not even five minutes into mass and I'm out like a light...

[NA]

I'm an Athiest/Agnostic.

I Don't believe in organised religions and preachings I live by own set of rules that I class as right regardless of whether anyone else classes them as wrong.

Due to the fact I don't believe in religion or any god, I don't believe these rules have derived from any set religion, they're just things I see as logical in order to progress (semi) peacefully through life with other people.

[King]

I'm catholic/barely agnostic. I graduated c.c.d-(I guess you could call it catholic school)-and it was seven years in total. I used to go to church but took a pause. My family is kind of making a change. They still believe in both Jesus and God and such things as comandments but don't belive in things as not eating meat on Friday, etc. As for my Agnostic side I really want more answers and don't want to rely so much on faith.

[Yeti]

I dont really like religious questions but Im baptised Church of England............but

I belive in myself, the only faith I need is in those around me and the ones I love. I do not follow an idol as it will not give me what I ask for, only I can reach for my goals with the help of those close to me.

When someone says 'oh god' I answer 'what', the person repies 'why are you saying what' to which I say 'Im the only one answering'.

make friends, love your family, lead the best life you can, help others when possible and be happy. the rest is just life so enjoy it

[MAC_and_cheese]

Ah I am Christian.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to respond, nor do I have the patience

[Sajjetta]

Im Catholic too

[vix]

There's a higher power, I suppose, not any I specifially believe in though.

Life wouldn't suck this much if there was a god or something like that.

[Tunes]

I would say I'm more spiritual, less religious.

[enigmatic_vivacity]

uh oh...a religion topic, prepare for a rant...

im an atheist and a buddhist...and before you say it...no thats not a contradiction...buddhists dont believe in a god of any kind, we follow the teachings of a real man and nothing more.

i chose to follow buddhism because as far as i know (not that im a brilliant historian or anything), its the only religion that has never intimidated or provoked others and for me it has also increased my quality of life...theres nothing more relaxing before climbing into bed for me than some meditation . buddhism teaches people discipline and ways of dealing with stress, as well as your normal morals, and through it i have found brilliant levels of patience, physical discipline and also the ability to trully step back from things and see the whole situation. it has also greatly increased my ability to accept things, whether it be opposing views, problems i encounter in life or the like.

as for other religions, i have nothing against them bar one thing...i currently attend a catholic college (because it gets the best grades) and one thing that does annoy me is that even though i have made my beliefs perfectly clear, i cant go through one day without someone preaching about jesus to me, regardless of knowing im not christian...please dont take this in an offensive way. i just think that this is the one thing that is wrong with god worshipping religions...i wont say that believing in god is stupid or whatever...thats your own belief and it should be respected...but a lot of conflicts are products of such preaching escalating to the point where two god-worshipping religions clash.

anyway, that pretty much sums up my position on religion...buddhism, freedom and peace are three things very close to my heart, but even so, sorry for robbing ten minutes of your life lol

[MAC_and_cheese]

uh oh...a religion topic, prepare for a rant...

im an atheist and a buddhist...and before you say it...no thats not a contradiction...buddhists dont believe in a god of any kind, we follow the teachings of a real man and nothing more.

i chose to follow buddhism because as far as i know (not that im a brilliant historian or anything), its the only religion that has never intimidated or provoked others and for me it has also increased my quality of life...theres nothing more relaxing before climbing into bed for me than some meditation . buddhism teaches people discipline and ways of dealing with stress, as well as your normal morals, and through it i have found brilliant levels of patience, physical discipline and also the ability to trully step back from things and see the whole situation. it has also greatly increased my ability to accept things, whether it be opposing views, problems i encounter in life or the like.

as for other religions, i have nothing against them bar one thing...i currently attend a catholic college (because it gets the best grades) and one thing that does annoy me is that even though i have made my beliefs perfectly clear, i cant go through one day without someone preaching about jesus to me, regardless of knowing im not christian...please dont take this in an offensive way. i just think that this is the one thing that is wrong with god worshipping religions...i wont say that believing in god is stupid or whatever...thats your own belief and it should be respected...but a lot of conflicts are products of such preaching escalating to the point where two god-worshipping religions clash.

anyway, that pretty much sums up my position on religion...buddhism, freedom and peace are three things very close to my heart, but even so, sorry for robbing ten minutes of your life lol

Sure..

Although I am catholic, I usually integrate all of those things in my life =]

I have studied other ways of things and I sometimes do what I believe I like from them

[flexxx]

Religion, as a whole, is an illusion created by weak minded individuals who needed easy explenations to things they could not understand. Since then it has been used as a means to enslave and control people, it has caused more wars, more suffering and more death than you can even count, and even today it's causing so much pain and so much hardship for so many peole involved in conflicts which have no reason except for their clode-mindedness and belief in various lies made up by power hungry individuals hundreds of years ago.

Organized religion, as a whole, is evil in so many ways. Personal religion is not a big problem, it can be useful for weak people who need to fabricate their own lies to protect themselves from thoughts too big for their small brains to handle.

[doyle]

Sounds like me! "weak minded individuals having trouble coping" yep

[MESS]

So, flexxx, would you prefer a God fearing man as your leader, or someone who had no belief whatsoever in the afterlife leading your nation?

Religion motivates millions of people into performing selfless and compassionate acts. All religions have their dark periods in history, but as a whole they are an extremely positive force in the world. Take Islam for an example, for every extremist it motivates another 1,000 muslims to live dedicated lives, donating both their time and money to help fellow humans.

[Lord Elevation]

It may just be me, but I think it's much more admirable and desirable for someone to find a reason to do good from within themselves and from within their own experience of life rather than being commanded to do good by some plausibly deniable omnipotent being who punishes with eternal damnation.

That being said, since everyone is throwing labels around, I'm an agnostic pantheist.

[doyle]

Without organized religion, people would still be relatively similar, good people would do good things, bad people would do bad things.

The only difference from a world with organized religion is, in a world with organized religion, good people do bad things thinking they are righteous.

[Lord Elevation]

You can't blame the evils of the world on an arbitrary thing like organized religion. You have to first understand what that label means. Religion is one of the primary functions of life: the recognition, experience, and action of an ideal. Organized religion, then, is when a group of men consolidate themselves toward a single, agreed upon ideal. In this way, religion is the force that can transform a group of separate people into a single living organism that is greater than the sum of its parts. This is the basis of every civilization. It is one of the most primal instincts of man.

Now, fast forward to a situation where you face a clash of civilizations. This will be no different from any other conflict between two living things. The nature of the organism determines its reaction, i.e. dominant or submissive, aggressive or non-aggressive. In this case, the organism is a group of men. It is their collective consciousness whose nature is in question. Thus, it is the men's shared natures, their most basic, fundamental instincts that are revealed by the organism's reaction. What different religions reveal about different civilizations and man himself is that we are all seeking the same ideal of perfection, but because of our limited, particular experience of life, that ideal manifests itself imperfectly and esoterically. Furthermore, even though we are at least subconsciously aware of this imperfection, once that consolidation has been made and the organism has been created, it will do what it feels necessary for its survival. This is the function of the human perception of the collective good. It is why societies exist and survive. It is also why racism and bigotry exists.

Every human endeavor can be understood as a religion in this way, this seeking and acting out of an imagined ideal. I'm talking about the nonrational, intuitive spirit inside all of us that seeks, whether to merely perceive, to reflect, or to actually attain, the metaphysical point in the universe where parallel lines meet in infinity, the God point. It can manifest itself in so many more ways than our accepted understanding of what religious is. It is everything that collects us together. Our culture and our civilization is our religion. The things that we collectively aspire to most. That is what religion is supposed to be, right? What we seek to create with our existence? I'm not just making things up as I go along here, right?

So, with that type of lens on, I want to take a look at what most of Western religion really is comprised of now. Just look at some of our biggest and most sacred rituals: democracy, education, capitalism, sports, art. What does it tell you about man? It points to a duality between the individual competitive spirit and the spirit of the whole. We wholeheartedly believe in the potential of the individual, yet we also instinctively recognize the absolute necessity of the collective power of man. So these rituals, then, demonstrate an ideal of an individual endeavor that is both supported by and in support of the collective good. We reached a point in our development where we ordained ourselves as the arbiters of our collective power. We achieve this ideal with the rituals I just listed.

So what point am I making? Organized religion is one of the fundamental components of man, it is the societal instinct. Without organized religion, we would be nothing.

This is why I call myself an agnostic pantheist. As individuals, it is impossible for us to know the whole universe. Our experience of it is distinct. It is esoteric. But that part of our psyche that seeks out the god concept is a consolidating instinct. It seeks to create the one from the many. Our perception of the universe, then, the many, is a manifestation of the god, the one. Hence, everything is comprised of the god concept. It is the universe itself.

[NA]

So, flexxx, would you prefer a God fearing man as your leader, or someone who had no belief whatsoever in the afterlife leading your nation?

Religion motivates millions of people into performing selfless and compassionate acts. All religions have their dark periods in history, but as a whole they are an extremely positive force in the world. Take Islam for an example, for every extremist it motivates another 1,000 muslims to live dedicated lives, donating both their time and money to help fellow humans.

What I want to know is why the fuck religion should come in to leading a country.

Flexxx also just stated he thinks God is Bullshit, so why the fuck would he want someone who fears god to rule is country? Of course he'd rather someone had no belief, hello look at what country he's living in.

Funny thing is, no politician I've ever known other than those in America look to god or speak about him in speaches. No one cares because they run a country without needing to look to a so called "Higher power."

The beginning of that post just sort of proved exactly what Flexxx was saying Mess.

And of course all religions have dark patches in History, look at the Witch trials, but why on earth would that change the opinion of "Religion is weak." It just further proves his point. Religion is peaceful for those few calm individuals, but if you told someone to believe in a fish god and worship said god with their underwear on their head there'd still be extremists regardless. Which I believe was his overall point.

But I'm defending his opinion I never stated mine.

On a side note Doyle has a very good point. Too many good people have turned into complete morons thinking they're "Doing gods work."

[enigmatic_vivacity]

i dont like how you people are throwing the word religion around here.

try 'god-worshipping religion' instead...that can be applied properly because all that you are saying only applies to god-worshipping religions.

i agree with what elevation is saying to a certain extent, however, you are suggesting that we need to believe in a god...that its integral to civilisation. you also say that 'everything is comprised of the god concept'.

i dont agree with this...as a buddhist i have found that my religion, were it practiced by a majority, is strong enough to hold together society and any civilisation...and yet it does not require blind devotion to a god figure. Buddha has no power over buddhists...he died a long time ago and we know that...yet through respect of what he achieved, we follow his teachings, teachings that lead us to do all the things elevation listed but without conflicting with anyone else and without submitting to the idea of an all-powerful judge.

in buddhism there is no conflict between peoples different efforts to pursue their own needs. buddhism can be crafted by the individual to help them through their life and yet, there is still a sense of community that unites us. in buddhism there is a general level of acceptance, patience and tolerance that god-worshipping religions have never achieved. this is my main point...i agree with most of what you say elevation, organised religion can be a good thing, but the fact that buddhism exists makes your conclusion irrelevant as we do in fact not need to strive towards a 'god concept'...in other words, we do not need to make up such concepts to rally under...instead we should follow the good deads of real people.

EDIT: where i said flexxx i meant elevation sorry...my bad

Last edited by enigmatic_vivacity on Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

[flexxx]

LOL, I would be so scared at the prospect of someone religious running my country. Personal illusions of religion should never, EVER have anything to do with politics.

They are two separate entities which should never be mixed. At least here, if we have a religious leader they will keep that private. Except for the Christian Democrats, but efven they emphasize their belief in christian values and now their christianity. And only 4% vote for them anyway.

If a prime minister here were to say sometihng like "God bless Sweden", there would be a massive outcry. I'd never let someone controlled by religion run my country.

aND ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS DONE MY RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. tHEY DO THESE GOOD THINGS AS A MEANS TO GET THEMSELVES A GOOD SPOT IN SOME PARADISE AFTER DEATH, SO IS THAT help really a kind of help you want, knowing someone is selfishly trying to buy themself happiness in the next life by helpig you, instead of helping you because they want to?

If the reason they help people is a big lie, then of course its good that the lie is making help people, but it's still wrong.

[MAC_and_cheese]

Although it seems (And is almost always true) that most Christians follow the rules (premarital sex, murder) just to be 'saved', I know many people, including me and my father, who know what is right and what is not. If I see a man bleeding in the streets, I don't go "Oh, if I don't help him I won't be saved." I know what it is to help someone, not because of my religion, but because of how I was raised and what I developed mentally about the world and society as a whole.

Since when did a person ever go "I should help them because of my religion" come into play? I never experienced it. Even in The Bible it states that when all of the priests and scribes (or whatever) saw a beaten man on the ground as they walked by, the only person that helped them was that person who was considered to be a person against the beaten man's "racial status" or something.

So saying that we do everything according to religion is wrong, because we have values that we think of when we interact with each other.

(PS flexx, i think you pressed caps lock a bit early there. Ah, and elevation that was probably the longest post I have ever seen you thrust upon this webiste )

[RE Virus]

Sounds like me! "weak minded individuals having trouble coping" yep

The first step is acknowledging it, so well done.

It may just be me, but I think it's much more admirable and desirable for someone to find a reason to do good from within themselves and from within their own experience of life rather than being commanded to do good by some plausibly deniable omnipotent being who punishes with eternal damnation.

Couldn't've said it better.


Regarding the issue of the origins of life... check this out:

Unlocking the Mysteries of Life - The Case for Intelligent Design [download]

It's a very interesting film that makes you THINK (which I know some of you here are not good at). Note that the concept of intelligent design is not necessarily a matter of faith (although religious beliefs may easily overlap), but of Darwinian biochemical natural selection versus 'intelligence', not necessarily 'God' -- much less a humanly-defined god. It's not a false dichotomy as some claim. Check it out.

[RedTyga]

You know, my ethics teacher pretty much tells us that you don't have to be religious to be more religious than someone that is.

He has also taught me that as humans we do everything because we are selfish. Even when we help other people, we are doing it for selfish reasons.

[MESS]

He may ave taught you it, but did he prove it?