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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:50 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi Kubi:

This topic is, indeed, about the Wisconsin anti-union bill.

As an aside, I feel no emnity towards RE Virus--it is just that some of RE Virus' posts were off topic.

Nevertheless, I have a question for RE Virus: do you agree with the the anti-union bill or not? Or, alternatively, do you think that Wisconsin should not ban the right of public workers to form unions, but, rather, place restrictions on the organizations in question?

I eagerly await RE Virus' response.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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doyle wrote:
QP, you can't argue with REVIrus, he doesn't have any actual philosophical, political, economic, religious, or ethical views or really anything that has any semblance of a concrete worldview. He doesn't know how the world should be organized (not even in the sense that he thinks he knows but is wrong, like most politicians, but in the sense that he literally has no idea about how anything should be organized), he doesn't understand how capitalism, communism, socialism, or really any economic system works. He has the most tenuous grasp of international and domestic politics.

O rly? Are you sure you're not describing yourself, Doyle? I only spend several hours a day studying those things you mention... Perhaps you spend more time than me?

Quote:
Believe me, ask him any question about anything to do with our social experience and he won't have anything to add to the conversation except to scoff at what you say.

I don't scoff, no, but I will point out that it may be a media distraction to keep you from looking at the more important things going on.

Quote:
He just thinks that Jews are behind everything. This is not meant to be a refutation of his claims, I'm just saying, this is what he thinks, and this is all he knows. Arguing with him is like playing tennis with a brick wall. Brick walls are not tennis players, REVirus is not a person that you can engage in discussion with and expect any fruitful result. There is nothing he doesn't think is the result of a Zionist conspiracy. I can assure you that REVirus also thinks that Gov. Walker is supported by some sort of Zionist conspiracy as well.

I think you meant... "QP is not a person that you can engage in discussion with and expect any fruitful result". (Don't get me wrong, QP, I wouldn't take away your broad philosophical outlook on life).

And no, Doyle, Jews aren't behind everything, but they do control the money, the media, the government, and many other institutions. If you take the time to educate yourself on how the monetary system works, you'd realize the grand problem is systemic, and that it is there regardless of Jews being at the helm. Everything is a symptom of the fundamentally corrupt money system. It's a foundationally flawed money system which cannot go anywhere but crashing down, creating immense suffering for the entire world in the process.

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REVirus is just a guy that refuses to accept that we live in chaos and turns to belief to explain everything. Some believe in God, some believe in conspiracy. No amount of proof can disprove God, no amount of proof can disprove REVirus's belief. REVirus takes what he believes on pure faith --there is only implication and interpretation. Nothing will provoke a recalcitrant experience in REVirus. His beliefs are not up for revision, and not only that, but he will never establish any grounds for reversing his beliefs, which means everything he says is dogmatic. Don't worry about what he has to say, you will feel better about it.

Yet I feel like I'm revising my views (or beliefs, suppositions) every day. I had always mantained that one of my fundamental philosophies is that all my beliefs and views are open for revision. But you know better.


QuotidianPerfection wrote:
Nevertheless, I have a question for RE Virus: do you agree with the the anti-union bill or not? Or, alternatively, do you think that Wisconsin should not ban the right of public workers to form unions, but, rather, place restrictions on the organizations in question?

I'm not familiar with the subject, but generally I'm in favor of unions, yes. But workers unions shouldn't have a reason to exist in the first place. Within the monetary system (a debt-based, fraudulent, anti-human economy) there could be any number of solutions. Workers' rights could be decreed by law and upheld as legal rights which no ruler or lawmaker has the authority to question -- an entrenched bill of rights for workers. But then, the niggers working the cotton fields didn't have a bill of rights, did they, so why should we debt slaves?


QP, you say you are open to new information, yes? Even that which might challenge your deepest held beliefs? Please check out the following 3 films (of the same series).

Zeitgeist: Addendum

Zeitgeist: Orientation Presentation

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:28 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

You made a good point: unions exist, but should not have to in a perfectly just society. However, since humans, by nature, are imperfect, the existence of the aforentioned institutions are necessary.

Now, I will address a couple issues which you have raised, and will begin the issue of slavery. (Ethically, I find the practice of one individual owning another person ethically distasteful, but, for purposes of adding clarity to our current discussion, I will just "stick to the facts.") You accurately point out that, under Antebellum American law, blacks lived and toiled in an environment that Agamben would classify as a "state of exception." Constitutionally speaking, blacks did not have a right to unionize to voice their complaints. If we look at the larger causal picture, though, we discover that some African-Americans were not sold to Europeans by African chieftains, but, instead, lived in parts of Africa and the Carribean where they were guaranteed certain rights before being forcefully dragged onto ships by slave traders. If these countries recognized the right of their citizens to band together for the purposes of fighting despotism, then one can say that certain slaves have the moral right to form unions, since that guarantee was stripped by people of a different country.

I find your second opinion--specifically that Jews control the media--problematic, simply because, if that was the case, then they, theoretically, would also control you. For me, your tendency to resist, rather than go along with, with what you consider as Jewish philosophy is proof enough for me that this claim is specious.

Tonight, I will watch the films which you recommended, and will make appropriate commentary on them (i.e., how they relate to unions) when time permits.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:49 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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QuotidianPerfection wrote:
You made a good point: unions exist, but should not have to in a perfectly just society. However, since humans, by nature, are imperfect, the existence of the aforentioned institutions are necessary.

I strongly disagree, and if you watch those films you might begin to understand why.

Quote:
Ethically, I find the practice of one individual owning another person ethically distasteful,

You find slavery "distasteful"? :heh

Quote:
I find your second opinion--specifically that Jews control the media--problematic, simply because, if that was the case, then they, theoretically, would also control you. For me, your tendency to resist, rather than go along with, with what you consider as Jewish philosophy is proof enough for me that this claim is specious.

This makes no sense. Can you reformulate?

Quote:
Tonight, I will watch the films which you recommended, and will make appropriate commentary on them (i.e., how they relate to unions) when time permits.

You can't watch them in a night, they're about 6 hours; just watch one per night. No commentary is necessary, and remember that forum threads can and do stray from the original topics; it's natural and usually OK, esp. in small community forums like this one.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:02 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

Thank you for the links to the films.

Actually, I have watched almost an hour of ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011). While the film is certainly well done, and presents a strong case that both nature and nuture groom personal behavioral development, there are several flaws I find with the flick. The first is that the video does not permit people with dissenting opinions to voice their beliefs. Also, the movie tends to blame the U.S. for environmental destruction (e.g., extensive use of oil and oil-related products). Keep in mind, however, that the Arab countries who sell the U.S. oil are just as guilty as America for damaging the environment. Furthermore, the film also suggests in certain areas that some undeveloped countries are less volatile than developed nations. While this might be true, it would be laughable for any technologically advanced country to regress to a primitive state in order to find the true meaning of happiness. Aside from these disagreements, I think that ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011) does a fairly good job of attempting to tackle complex social issues from the vantage point of an ecclectic mix of experts.

After watching part of the ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011), I am convinced that, in this day and age, laborers in the US have two choices--unionize or suffer exploitation. Common sense dictates that US workers will find the former choice a far more logical option than the latter one.

Now, let us turn to your conception that the Jews brainwash the media into thinking and acting in a certain manner. If this were true, then you, along with others, would do and say everything the so-called "Jewish hierarchal leaders" told you to. Nevertheless, I have read your posts, and you seem like a person highly unlikely to follow the orders of "Jewish commanders." If this is the case, then it is conceivable that others out there might refuse to be their "puppets." Why is this not the case? It is simply because of this: your Jewish brainwashing hypothesis is fallacious.

One final thing--yes, I do find the practice of slavery dispicable.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:52 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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You started on the wrong flim, but keep watching. Zeitgeist Addendum is the first in the series, so you should start watching that one. No need to make premature observations, but as for presenting opposing views, that's what the TV (TalmudVision) is for. Think logically instead of philosophically for once.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:33 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

Okay. I will watch the three films first before making commentary. One quick observation, though: the utopian economic world advanced in ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD (2011)., while theoretically attainable from an economics standpoint, is practically infeasible realistically speaking, simply because some individuals will always be more selfish than others. These persons will inevitably find a way to exploit people for personal gain, and the ecosystem, which was originally designed to operate in a productive manner, will quickly turn counterproductive. This point is articulated earlier in the film: what works in theory will not necessarily prove effecacious in real life. Perhaps the biggest irony is, after scientists admit the aforementioned claim, they assume that a theoretical economically flawless Eden is practically achievable. However, if Eden suffered downfall, then the new economic paradise is susceptible to suffering the same fate as the once-perfect garden.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:10 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Have you ever read Empire by Hardt and Negri?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:02 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi doyle:

When I was replying to RE Virus, I had The Man Who Corrupted Hadleyville, by Mark Twain, in mind. Also, I was thinking about how Sir Thomas More's Utopia, a place free of imperfection, is impossible to duplicate in real life, since history has proven that even the most "incorruptible" environments are subject to corruption. If this is the case, then it is possible that even an economically perfect environment can disintegrate, over time, into one in which laborers are exploited by unscrupulous bosses who rose to power through cut-throat tactics. Seen in this light, people need to unionize, even in perfect economic infrastructures, just in the event that an economic utopia regresses into an environment where the few exploit the many.

By the way, I never read Empire by Hardt and Negri, but will order the book from our library.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:52 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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It's available online free and legally. It is very much relevant to struggles like Wisconsin and the like.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:41 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi doyle:

Thank you for the link. I'll begin reading it tonight.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:17 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hahaha, this is great:

Indiana prosecutor told Wisconsin governor to stage ‘false flag’ operation

Quote:
An Indiana prosecutor and Republican activist has resigned after emails show he suggested Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker stage a fake attack on himself to discredit unions protesting his budget repair bill.

The Republican governor signed a bill on March 11 that eliminates most union rights for public employees.

In an email from February 19, Indiana deputy prosecutor Carlos F. Lam told Walker the situation presented "a good opportunity for what’s called a ‘false flag’ operation."

The Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism discovered the email among tens of thousands released to the public last week following a lawsuit by the Isthmus and the Associated Press.

"If you could employ an associate who pretends to be sympathetic to the unions' cause to physically attack you (or even use a firearm against you), you could discredit the unions," Lam said in his email.

"Currently, the media is painting the union protest as a democratic uprising and failing to mention the role of the DNC and umbrella union organizations in the protest," he continued. "Employing a false flag operation would assist in undercutting any support that the media may be creating in favor of the unions."

Lam resigned from his position after the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism published an article about his email.

On February 22, an alternative paper in Buffalo, New York managed to trick Walker into taking a call from their editor posing as tea party tycoon David Koch.

When the editor posing as Koch suggested planting some troublemakers in the protests, Walker responded that "we thought about that," but said it was not necessary "because sooner or later the media stops finding ’em interesting."

"My only fear would be is if there was a ruckus caused is that that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has gotta settle to avoid all these problems," he said.

Walker had promised to lay off 1,500 state workers if the bill to curb collective bargaining rights for public employees didn't pass.

In mid-February, 14 Democratic state senators left Wisconsin to stall a vote on the bill. There are 19 Republican senators, but the Senate needs a minimum of 20 members to be present to debate and vote on any bills that spend money.

While the 14 Democratic senators remained in Illinois, Republican state senators removed all references to spending from the bill and passed the proposal to limit public employees' collective bargaining rights.

Wisconsin citizens upset withWalker's attack on public employees' collective bargaining rights have launched a boycott campaign aimed at his campaign contributors.


But false flag operations only exist in the imagination of "anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists" like RE Virus, right? CNN and FOX News told me so, so both sides are in agreement.

Haha, "both sides"!

Now to be serious, had a Jared Loughner shot Gov. Walker and people with a clue like myself pointed out that the incident only benefits Gov. Walker and his handlers (i.e. his "campaign contributors" and the news media), we would be shouted down with the greatest of all insults, "conspiracy theorists". Actually, not shouted down, but simply ignored as if the obvious logic of it wasn't there.

And as for "planting some troublemakers in the protests," which Gov. Walker and his advisors "thought about", this is called controlled opposition, and it has been going on for over 100 years.

It's so effective simply because the sheeple will never believe that anyone would do that. This is called the Big Lie principle: tell a big enough lie, and people will believe it because they can't fathom that anyone would tell such a monumental lie and expect to get away with it. And what prevents people from realizing this paradox? Groupthink.

And what prevents the above-quoted expose from sinking into the public's consciousness? The news media, of course (despite the fact that Mr. Lam was trying to manipulate the media to his advantage). You won't hear about it on ABCNNBCBSFOX (and it's not because Gov. Walker has any influence over any of them).

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:53 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

You are right to disregard the majority of the media, as their reporting is often tainted by conservatism or liberalism. The majority of news anchors also are little more than teleprompter readers. In all honesty, I do not know whether the Wisconsin Anti-Union Law is cemented in some sort of overarching conspiracy, or if the blame extends no further than Walker and his disciples. Nevertheless, I agree with you that politicians, such as Scott Walker, who dislike public unions will abuse their power to pass bills to eradicate the organizations which they find appalling, even if the majority of the popolous disagrees with their actions.

I also have a question for doyle about Hardt and Negri's Empire: do you see the space which Hardt and Negri define as Empire as originally an area with infinite boundaries, or just a point with a perpetually expanding radius? I ask this question because, if the former is true, then there can be no "center" that controls Empire, simply because infinite boundaries possess no center. Thus, if the area of Empire is already boundless, it cannot exist the way in which Hardt and Negri describe it. Contrariwise, if Empire began as a point, a "big bang" whose radius can expand to limitless proportions, then Hardt and Negri's idea is tenable. I am interested on your thoughts concerning the matter. I have just started to read Hardt and Negri's Empire, and am finding it to be a tough yet fascinating read.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:02 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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QuotidianPerfection wrote:
You are right to disregard the majority of the media, as their reporting is often tainted by conservatism or liberalism.

Yes, that's both sides! Hahaha.

QP, read the above article very carefully. Then read it again.

Some commenters on the article make very good points:

Quote:
I think Walker has committed a criminal act. As soon as he was aware of criminal conspiracy on the part of the Indiana prosecutor, because that is a crime to conspire to stage a gun attack against an elected official he was duty bound to report that to the police. He did not. This needs to be investigated.

Quote:
it was pretty obvious to a lot of Seattle residents who paid attention to events during WTO `99 that the "Black Bloc Anarchists" were peopled with members paid to incite a false flag op to discredit the 100,000 peaceful protesters (many from labor unions)

Quote:
It makes me wonder what these people have been up to all these years here in Indiana. Funny that the local papers aren't running this story. Lam is but a product of the political culture he's part of, it's likely that he's just the tip of the iceberg of dirty right wing politics in Indiana.

Quote:
Dirty right wing politics in Indiana? Surely not. Not when our governor is a former big boy in a major pharmaceutical company. They're honest enough people. They don't profit off of death and destruction in any way, shape, or form. They're not trying to label all school children with mental disorders.

Quote:
Or request that the US use depleted uranium Tomahawk missles in Libya (and elsewhere) in order to profit from the mountains of "test subjects" they will have in the next 30 years for the uber profitable 500 or so types of radiation cancer in research institutes and "medicines/treatments," whilst throwing as much nuclear power waste "somewhere else" on the planet. Naaaahhhhh...

Quote:
Well, since this guy is a prosecutor.. you know people aren't getting fair trials there as he's obviously not above fabricating evidence to get his way.

Quote:
False flag operations have been used against labor far more often than most people realize.

Former Harvard Professor Gary T. Marx wrote a scholarly paper on the subject entitled "An overlooked category of Social Movement Participant: The Agent Provocateur and the Informant". Most of the content deals with the COINTLPELPRO era, but there is also a section dealing with provocateurs and false flags during the Robber Baron era and the early 20th Century. Bombings, machine gunnings etc. were committed by private security agencies like the Pinkertons than blamed on union leaders, socialists and anarchists.

It is an ideal tactic because the media (including much of the left) refuses to even acknowledge the possibility that the latest "terrorist attack" may have staged by an intelligence agency or private contractor. To do so would undermine the legitimacy of many of society's most fundamental institutions.

Quote:
Why is the Christianic Republican domestic terrorist not in prison? He tried to stage a murder attempt to deny Americans their rights, freedoms, and liberties so why is that terrorist traitor not in prison? ... Not to mention the fact that he is an 'effing prosecutor! Good lord. Putting that criminal in a position to judge peoples lives!

Quote:
How is this not a criminal conspiracy? Staging a false flag attack requires lying to law enforcement about the identity of the perpetrator. Making false accusations to the police is a crime. If the Wisconsin or Indiana attorneys general are too right-wing, corrupt or incompetent to bring charges, why isn't the US Department of Justice involved? The Indiana creep used the internet to transmit his illegal proposal; that's interstate wire crime, and comes under Federal jurisdiction.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:05 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

In my earlier statement, I neither agreed nor disagreed with opinions that cast what it is transpiring in Wisconsin as part of a bigger conspiracy act. In fact, I used the following words: "I do not know."

While I do not see Scott Walker as a villian, I question his choice in logic in passing his Anti-Union Bill.

I will compose a hypothetical situation in order to explain why. For instance, say a postal worker is an African-American, and objects to delivering mail to a community dominated by KKK members. When asked why he or she wants to discontinue that particular route, the postal worker says, "I got death threats." That individual informs the government of his or her grievances. However, the government decides that the right of people to receive mail outweighs one's concern for personal safety. Now, suppose that person, who worked for twenty years as a postal worker, refuses to labor again until he or she can perform his or her job without fear of being murdered. Consequently, the government fires that individual. If public unions still existed, then other postal workers--who felt that the government was jeopardizing a person's life by sending an African-American postal worker into a society which despies Blacks--can unite, and strike. Doing so wouid pressure the government to consider whether terminating that person's employment was a just decision, especially in light of the fact that the person in question illustrated a sufficient enough reason why the conditions in which he or she worked were unsafe.

I firmly believe the depiction in the preceding paragraph presents a strong hypothetical example of why Wisconsin union members abhor Walker's new Anti-Union Law. I will not rule out the possibility that Walker's new law is part of a larger gubernatorial conspiracy; however, I think that concerns about the aforementioned are secondary to the major issue at stake: workers' right to unionize in order to shield themselves from unscrupulous employers.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:52 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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In my earlier statement, I neither agreed nor disagreed with opinions that cast what it is transpiring in Wisconsin as part of a bigger conspiracy act. In fact, I used the following words: "I do not know."


It's not about agreeing or disagreeing. Unless you want to propose that the report is false and that the email was faked. And what "bigger conspiracy act"? Don't be stupid. Read it, analyze it, think about the implications, and let it sink in.

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I will not rule out the possibility that Walker's new law is part of a larger gubernatorial conspiracy;

What the hell are you talking about?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:34 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

I am not going to deny that "the report was false and the email was faked." However, comments on the article are merely opinions, and should not be construed as verities or fallacies. Let's face it: many politicians are selfish, and put their interests above their constituents. But that does not necessarily mean that those affected negatively by a law will believe the aforementioned juristic decree is merely a veil for other wrongs which are transpiring in government.

For example, do you think that a teacher who is woefully underpaid--and gets fired as a consequence of striking--cares about whether Walker's Anti-Union Law is part of some larger conspiracy? I don't think so. Here's how the teacher which I described might delineate: "If public unions were still legal in Wisconsin, then I would not lose my job for protesting my pathetic pay." In essence, if the teacher striked over being poorly paid prior to Walker's Anti-Union Law, he or she might still be employed.

The media can hypothesize that Walker is merely a piece that fits into a conspiracy puzzle (i.e., once every fragment is collected) all it wants. Nevertheless, most public laborers who are dismissed from their vocation for striking could careless about conspiracy schemes. All they want is for Walker's Anti-Union Law to be repealed so that they can strike whenever the conditions in their working environment are either unfair or unjust.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:43 am  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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QP everything you are say is just opinion as well given that you are putting forward hypotheticals. And I don't think RE is arguing with the original reason why you started this topic (at least not now). The fact is that a false flag operation has been uncovered where the perpetrator was a prosecutor.

You use a lot of double negatives when you say - I am not going to deny that "the report was false and the email was faked.". As I read it you are saying - I am going to accept that "the report was false and the email was faked."? I would suggest that double negatives should be avoided.

You can assume that the false flag operation is real given that Lam resigned. He is not denying it. Fake emails are also easy to detect and are usually exposed quickly. There was a case of this last year in Australian politics.

RE as for the article comments you quoted only the 1st and 6th carry any real weight with me. The rest are rants. The reality is that Walker should have reported Lam, by don't doing so he is implicated in the conspiracy. I always try to avoid my passion clouding the strength of my argument.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:09 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Again I can't be bothered to reply to QP's random ramblings. Address the subject at hand or expect to be ignored.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:17 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi crispncrunchy:

Literally, my suggestion that "I am not going to deny that 'the report was false and the email was faked,'" might, on its face, constitute a double negative construction. However, when idiomatically dissected, it simply means that "I am more interested with how the Anti-Union Law affects public workers who belong to unions than conspiracy theories which temper the juristic measure itself."

Now, I will briefly explain on why I support public unions. If unions are illegal, politicians who make millions of dollars a year can perceive their employees as expendable. If these laborers strike over wages to cover insurance, taxes, or supporting a family, the overpaid politician might fire them, and hire a new batch of employees. Some might wind up homeless, and die of victimization, starvation, or poor health. Yet, if these workers have the right to unionize, then can strike whenever they feel that their pay cannot provide for their fundamental needs. Now, politicians can no longer fire their employess who strike for better wages, since the law forbids them from doing so. As soon as the politicians' salaries decrease, they will--although reluctantly--raise the salaries of their laborers.

The preceding paragraph explains the primary concern of Wisconsin's Anti-Labor Labor Law--how it fails to protect pathetically paid public workers who toil for rich politicians--and argues why this ordinance must be repealed.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:38 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Well that is a leap of imagination. Well beyond my imagination! Fuck I thought I had one :??? Where the fuck did it go. Mom! U stole my brain HELP!!!!

Get real kiddo, you DID constitute a double negative construction! If that wasn't the import of what you wanted to say then why say it?

While you may enjoy hidden meanings and expansive vocabulary, when (or if) you grow up you will find that none of it is necessary to find real satisfaction. Life is too pragmatic!

You've stated your opinion on Wisconsin's Anti-Union Bill in a number of torturously similar ways. I think you've made the point now. Don't get me wrong I actually agree will your opinion in this case. But you are tiresomely conceited about it. And that greatly affects the reader's perception.

Why am I saying this? Because I see you have half a chance.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:14 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi crispyncrunchy:

Thank you for your kind words. Honestly speaking, I AM 35 years old, and hold a M.A. in Literature. To protect my identity, though, I don't want to provide specifics.

By the way, my girlfriend despises unions, and considers me an apologist for them. Nevertheless, I succeeded in convincing my nephew and niece why unions are necessary. Whst I was trying to do in my previous posts was examine the Wisconsin debate over the necessity of unions from every conceivable angle.

This brings me to my second point: how I plan to answer RE Virus' queries. RE Virus, if you want me to answer your questions, you must first tell me which ones you want me to address. I will gladly oblige. However, please be forewarned that, just because I field your queries, it does not necessarily that I will concur with you on every point.

As far as "conspiracy theories" are involved, are you aware that Judge Maryann Sumi's son is a union member? And is it a coincidence that Judge Sumi is preventing Walker's Anti-Union Law from going into effect until it is judicially reviewed? Here is a link to the article pertaining to Sumi's ruling: http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110330/APC0101/103300556/Dane-County-Judge-Maryann-Sumi-blocks-implementation-Governor-Scott-Walker-s-union-bargaining-law.

Here is a link to the article which implies that some individuals construe Sumi's involvement in the Wisconsin union controversy as a conflict of interest: http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/03/21/wisconsin-judge-maryann-sumi-her-seiu-afl-cio-political-operative-son/.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:38 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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crispncrunchy wrote:
You've stated your opinion on Wisconsin's Anti-Union Bill in a number of torturously similar ways. I think you've made the point now.

I still get the impression that QP doesn't understand how the Internet and online forums work. Or maybe he's a narcissist who marvels at his ability to write the same thing in 10 different ways.

QuotidianPerfection wrote:
RE Virus, if you want me to answer your questions, you must first tell me which ones you want me to address. I will gladly oblige. However, please be forewarned that, just because I field your queries, it does not necessarily that I will concur with you on every point.

What questions? What queries? I informed you of a false flag operation related to the subject topic that you insist on talking about. And what do you do? You completely ignore it and continue stating the same thing over and over (that the bill is bad), something that we all agree on. This time you didn't even bother to come up with a sophistical argument for why I am "wrong to your satisfaction". Instead you evoked the magic spell, "conspiracy theories".

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:12 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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Hi RE Virus:

The more I read source material pertaining to Carlos F. Lam's decision to instigate trouble in Wisconsin by urging Scott Walker to stage a "false flag operation," the more I feel appalled by their conduct. It seems to be another case of "dirty politics." But who places politicians in these powerful government positions? The governed. So who is irresponsible, these politicians, or their constituents, who thought highly enough of their ideals to elect them? That depends. If politicians "turn their backs" on their constituents, and act in a manner inconsistent with the individuals which they govern, then the elected official should shoulder all the blame. Nevertheless, if the people know in advance that a certain candidate will behave in an unscrupulous way once voted into office, and places that person in a gubernatorial position, then the populous must share some accountability for how that individual behaves.

In sum, one cannot predict, with one-hundred percent accuracy, which candidates will severely abuse their power once elected into office. However, if enough people were well-informed, then they would refuse to pick candidates with questionable credentials. Sadly, individuals will continue to vote for irresponsible people to govern them, but that is their own fault. If more people read, rather than watch American Idol (the American Idol reference is borrowed from RE Virus), then America would not be in a political quagmire.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:37 pm  Post subject: Re: Wisconsin's Proposed Anti-Union Bill Is Laughable  
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I see you dignified yourself to respond with some substance, and refrained from once again repeating the same opinion about unions and rambling in random generalities about nothing really. All bow before the noble Quotidian. :china

QuotidianPerfection wrote:
The more I read source material pertaining to Carlos F. Lam's decision to instigate trouble in Wisconsin by urging Scott Walker to stage a "false flag operation," the more I feel appalled by their conduct. It seems to be another case of "dirty politics."

But don't you think it's "dirtier" than you have been told (by the media) is possible? Suggesting the governor pay someone to shoot him to gain sympathy. This is completely outside of scope of what is supposed to be possible in American politics. (Which is why you don't hear about this incident in the news media.)

Quote:
But who places politicians in these powerful government positions? The governed.

Not really. Besides the problem of electronic voting machines rendering the voting system itself a complete joke, it's the media that presents the candidates. It's media-selected candidate A vs. media-selected candidate B.

Quote:
So who is irresponsible, these politicians, or their constituents, who thought highly enough of their ideals to elect them?

Thought highly enough of them? Really? People generally recognize that politicians are "corrupt", though they don't understand why. Isn't it more likely they were fooled by the media into voting for the "lesser of the evils"?

Quote:
Sadly, individuals will continue to vote for irresponsible people to govern them, but that is their own fault. If more people read, rather than watch American Idol (the American Idol reference is borrowed from RE Virus), then America would not be in a political quagmire.

American Idol (etc) is only a small part of the problem. The biggest problem bar none is CNN, ABC, CBS, Fox News, MSNBC, and the other criminal national news media.

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