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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:56 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Keep reading about Khazaria, then read The Thirteenth Tribe by Jewish historian Arthur Koestler. It's a must-read book for Old Testament-centered Christians.


QuotidianPerfection wrote:
I have mixed feelings about the confiscation of land from Palestinianians. Clearly, Israel can not revert to her 1967 borders. Doing so would not permit Israel to defend herself adequately against PLO attacks.

That doesn't make any sense. First, by "PLO attacks" I assume you mean Hamas, as the PLO became collaborationist after Israel created Hamas fearing Arafat's popularity would unify the Palestinians. The Palestinian freedom fighters such as Hamas would stop all attacks if Israel were to agree to the UN borders or pre-1967 borders.

Also, here you can read everything ("the worst") that Ahmadinejad has ever said about Israel, and how the "wipe Israel off the map" quote is a hoax: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel Read the entire article for a better understanding, and avoid parroting that lie again.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:26 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi Re Virus:

I will explain to you why Isreal refuses to honor U.N. recommendations regarding geopolitical borders or to revert to her pre-1967 territorial arrangements. First and foremost, many Israelis will point out that the Nation of Israel predated the Nation of Palestine. Some Israelis will argue that they are merely reclaiming what is rightfully theirs. Also, certain Israelis will find it hypocritical if they are forced to cede land to the Palestinians, while the United States--along with Central and South American countries--refuse to return land to its natives. In the case of Israel, a percentage of Israelis might claim that they are not the initial conquerors, but, rather, indigenous people whose land was confiscated by Palestinians centuries ago, and who expelled Palestinians from their geographical terrain to regain their homeland. Such Israelis can further extend the discussion, and posit that Wailing Wall became an area sacrosanct to the Jews long before the Dome of Rock acquired a quintessential religious significance to Muslims. In essence, the Israelis believe that the land which they possess belongs to them, and will fight to the death to protect it. The only hope for reconciling Isreali-Palestinian differences, in my opinion, is for someone to expose both groups to literature about the Khazarian Empire, and its effeciency in imperial administration.

As far as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is concerned, I find that a person who tells others that gay people do not exist in Iran as one whose credibility must be questioned.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:43 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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You missed the point about Khazaria again. I suggest you read that book, TTT. I'll put it in short: It contends that the Ashkenazi Jews that rule Israel today are descendants of the Khazars, not of the biblical Hebrews. Another Jewish scholar, Shlomo Sand, tackles the issue of the Sephardic Jews, who have virtually no Hebrew blood either, but descend from Berbers and Arabs from northern Africa.

There are a few falsehoods in your last post, but I most want to know which "Central and South American countries", exactly, "refuse to return land to its natives"??

Again you resort to an ignorant attack on Ahmadinejad, without acknowledging the fact that your previous attack was factually incorrect. He didn't say there are no gays in Iran, only that they are not out in public shoving their sexual preference in people's faces and organizing Gay Parades. It was a jab at the decadent morality of the formerly Christian West, a position you will surely agree with. So question everything you have been told about him and let the irony sink as you come to understand that you and him agree on just about everything regarding morality, God, piousness, everyday life, philosophy, and indeed to a great extent, theology.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:01 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi RE Virus:

First of all, I will answer your question about countries returning land to their natives. If the Israelis, for instance, are ordered to cede their land to the Palestinians, then they might find it grossly unfair that they have to surrender their geographical possession to its previous owner while no other country has to do the same thing. In other words, if the Israelis were told to give their territory back to the Palestinians, then they would ask the following question: "Why should we return our land to the Palestinians when no other country would cede its geographical holding to that particular territory's original inhabinants?" Furthermore, the original Israelis (i.e., the descendants of Hebrews prevalent during Biblical times) could argue that "This is our land. The Palestinians stole this territory from us. Therefore, we have every reclaim it."

Now, I have three questions to ask you, all of which are predicated upon points that you raised in your last post.

1. Do you believe that the land of Israel initially belonged to the Biblical Hebrews, rather than other ethic groups who have converted to Judaism?

2. Do you believe that the Palestinians inhabited the land of Israel, an area which they renamed Palestine, after taking over land which formerly belonged to the Hebrews?

3. Do you believe that not all Jews are responsible for subjecting Palestinians to apartheid in modern-day Israel? (Note: Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter wrote a book called Peace, Not Apartheid, which addresses this issue. Follow this link, and see what Carter has to say about certain Israelis' propensity for acting in a discriminatory manner towards Palestinians: http://www.democracynow.org/2006/11/30/palestine_peace_not_apartheid_jimmy_carter.)

As an aside, Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad did not win the most recent democratic election. In fact, many Iranians did not vote for him. When Ahmadinejad knew that he would lose the election, he used intimidation and coercion to accumulate enough votes to regain his presidency, as this link implies: http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2009/06/electionfraud/.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:31 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Every time I wonder why I bother responding to you. You don't know much about the subjects but write as if you were an expert. You don't need to tell me what Jimmy Carter has written about Palestine. BTW, you might not know that Carter suffered from a great deal of verbal abuse and censorship (his book being classified as "conspiracy theory", banned from libraries, banned from NYT bestseller list, not allowed to speak at universities, media appearances cancelled, etc). Not just censorship due to political correctness, but plain Jewish censorship.

To answer your questions: 1. It was stolen with blood by the Hebrews from the Canaanites, but sure, I have no problem with the idea that ancient Israel belonged to the Israelite tribes. Problem is (for Christians anyway), most of the Jews of today are Khazar/Berber/Arab converts, not descendend from the Israelites.

2. The Romans drove the Israelites out and renamed it Palestine, not its inhabitants. Most of the Palestinians descend from the Israelites, leaving Judaic beliefs behind and eventually embracing Islam in the 7th century.

3. Yes (duh).

And again you repeat the process with Ahmadinejad, from one accusation to the next. Do you really not get it? The media has told lies about him and Iran. Pre-election polls had Ahmadinejad leading by a considerable margin. The claims of vote fraud started before the votes were counted. Whatever (unproven but possible) vote fraud that occured would not have been sufficient to tilt the results in favor of Mousavi. The vast majority of Iranians are conservative, nationalist, Shia Muslims. Many are disappointed with Ahmadinejad because his regime has brought little improvement among the middle-poor class, but most don't see Mousavi, the main opposition candidate, as an improvement, if only because he is backed by the warmongering criminals of the West and by former president Rafsanjani who brought no positive change whatsoever.

And I still want to know which "Central and South American countries", exactly, "refuse to return land to its natives"...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:52 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi RE Virus:

My point of my previous post is that if the Israelis are ordered to cede land to Palestine, then they would find it unfair and hypocritical that other countries would not also be obligated to return land to its natives. Here is a succinct summary of how Spain has subjected Central and South America--as well the territory which we call the United States today--to colonization: http://www.shmoop.com/spanish-colonization/. And, when I am discussing the colonization of Central America, I am referring to all the countries between Mexico (a North American territory) and Columbia (a geographical area in South America): http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/camerica.htm. Similarly, when I am discussing South American landmasses, I am referring to those countries which lie south of Colombia, with the exception of Venezula, Guyana, and Suriname, and French Guiana, which lie to the north of Colombia: http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/sa.htm. You see, RE Virus, if Israel had to revert to a Palestinian form of government, they can rightly ask the following question: "If we have to go back to Palestinian rule, shouldn't the United States, and Central and South America return to the way things were prior to Spanish colonization?"

Now, let us talk about Iran. There are those who back Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad because they fear for their lives. This phenomenon, called masking, is explored by African-American poet Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906) in a poem called "We Wear the Mask": http://www.potw.org/archive/potw8.html.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:53 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Off topic... I keep checking to see if there is any discussion of the meaning of life, but... :shrug :shrug :shrug

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:27 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi crispncrunchy:

The meaning of life, for many individuals, deals with more than basic needs, namely, what is necessary for their survival. It also takes into accounts their wants. This is especially apparent in the Middle East today where the Palestinians and the Israelis are fighting over a geographical area which is known to the Palestinians as Palestine, and to the Israelis as Israel. I also am sure that you know people who are not satisfied with getting a car for the purpose of "going from point A to point B." These persons want to buy the most expensive vehicles possible in order to prove to everyone how wealthy they are.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:29 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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I find your response a bit condescending. I'm am very aware of the situation in the Middle East and I have an opinion about it. My opinion on a solution to the problem goes against the fundamental reasons why humans seek power and since I have no power over what goes on there I don't really want to spend my time going into an in-depth debate.

This thread interested me in that I'm much more concerned about finding meaning in life, not about debating the intricacies of politics.

I'm just saying that it's gone off the topic. I'm not saying that debating the situation is invalid.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:45 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi crispncrunchy:

I apologize if you felt that my response was condescending. My remarks were not intended to make anyone feel inferior, but, rather, to suggest that needs and wants--and sometimes the interaction of the former and the latter--play a vital role in how one operationally defines "the meaning of life."

It is de facto to note that often one's needs to survive often comes at another's expense. Let's say that Person A and Person B get lost in the desert, and need both need water to survive. They both find a canteen of water, which has just enough water to sustain a single person. There is chance that both people could both drink a commensurate amount of water from the canteen, and hope that they both defy the odds of perishing and live through the ordeal. It is also probable that one individual chooses to suffer death by permitting the other person to consume what is left in the canteen so that they may live. Nevertheless, a third possibility can transpire, one in which Person A and Person B fight over the canteen until one has exclusive access to the contents of the container. This will, in all likelihood, result in the death of one of the individuals.

Even if survival is not necessary, people can still slaughter others to fulfill their avarice. When people rob banks in the United States, for instance, sometimes the thief's plan involves seizing tens of millions of dollars worth of cash, and then disappearing to a remote section of a tropical island which has no extradition treaty with the United States. These plots usually involve murder, since bank security guards will do everything possible to prevent these thieves from draining the bank's vaults of money. Consequently, the guards and the thieves usually have an altercation, and, sometimes, the bank security officer is fatally shot.

There are times when the distinction between needs and wants are blurry. Suppose that two people are in the wilderness, and one finds food which allows one of them to continue living. Keep in mind that, in this situation, that the located food might not necessary for survival, and that there could be other forms of sustenance out there that can keep both persons alive. However, there is the possibility that the food which is found might be the only item capable of keeping one of them alive. Each individual is not willing to take any chances, and one kills the other. Is this a need? If the food which is stumbled upon is the only thing capable of permitting one of them to continue existing, then yes. However, it is a want if there are other non-poisonous edible things available which can also be eaten. It should be duly noted, though, that, at the time both people fought to the death over a source of food, they thought that it might be the only item available to allow a person to live. Therefore, in this case, survival could be dictated by both needs and wants. This is because both individuals thought that the first piece of sustenance which they came across might be the only item which could procure the livelihood of a single person. But, it is likely that their choice is predicated the assumption that their is nothing else to eat, an impulsive conclusion which time can prove wrong. Therefore, needs can also factor into this equation, making the case above an illustration of how wants and needs and can sometimes interact.

I hope that I answered your question. Please feel free to introduce new ideas related to this subject, and we can discuss them.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:21 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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QuotidianPerfection wrote:
My point of my previous post is that if the Israelis are ordered to cede land to Palestine, then they would find it unfair and hypocritical that other countries would not also be obligated to return land to its natives. Here is a succinct summary of how Spain has subjected Central and South America--as well the territory which we call the United States today--to colonization: http://www.shmoop.com/spanish-colonization/. And, when I am discussing the colonization of Central America, I am referring to all the countries between Mexico (a North American territory) and Columbia (a geographical area in South America): http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/camerica.htm. Similarly, when I am discussing South American landmasses, I am referring to those countries which lie south of Colombia, with the exception of Venezula, Guyana, and Suriname, and French Guiana, which lie to the north of Colombia: http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/sa.htm. You see, RE Virus, if Israel had to revert to a Palestinian form of government, they can rightly ask the following question: "If we have to go back to Palestinian rule, shouldn't the United States, and Central and South America return to the way things were prior to Spanish colonization?"

What are you talking about? Spain doesn't rule the Americas anymore... The Palestinians are being oppressed by a military occupation TODAY, RIGHT NOW as you write your dense response lacking in relevancy. And "back to Palestinian rule"? Does God approve of you smoking whatever you are smoking?

Quote:
Now, let us talk about Iran. There are those who back Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad because they fear for their lives. This phenomenon, called masking, is explored by African-American poet Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872-1906) in a poem called "We Wear the Mask": http://www.potw.org/archive/potw8.html.

There are those who back Barack Obama because they fear for their lives.

Is the above statement true? No, but an extremely ignorant Iranian might believe it.

It's too funny... I've set you straight on every false claim you've parroted about Ahmadinejad, and you just keep coming back with new ones, never acknowledging that you were mistaken about the previous claim.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:55 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi RE Virus:

I found it amusing that you assume that I smoke weed. This is a fallacy--I have never smoked pot in my life.

Now, let me try to phrase my arguments in less cryptic terms. Let's make it simple: suppose Israel was forced to return all Palestinian land, and revert to their pre-1967 borders. They would then have every right to ask the following question: why doesn't the United States give up Alaska and Hawaii? From a personal perspective, if you, along with a group of other people, won millions of dollars in the lottery by mistake--and you were the only one ordered to relinquish your winnings--wouldn't you feel slighted? Wouldn't you also refuse to return your prize on the grounds that, if others were allowed to keep their millions which was erroneously awarded to them, you should also be permitted to keep your share of the wealth that you ascertained, albeit by mistake? This, in essence, is how to Israel feels about surrending land to the Palestinians: why are we the only country criticized for territorial expansion when other countries, too, expand their boundaries?

I have noticed that you mention Barrack Obama and Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the same breath. Barrak Obama is often overbearing in his attempt to control the media, but never treats his constituents in the gruesome manner that Ahmadinejad does. Some individuals, in fact, want Ahmadinejad held acccountable for human rights violations. Here is a link to the story: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/09/17/un-hold-ahmadinejad-accountable-iran-rights-crisis.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:36 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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I believe the meaning of life is to get out there, and be the best. Remember that there's a higher level than the top. You need to make sure everyone knows that you are you, and you need to get known. Make it your goal to rise above, and you need to be polite while your doing it. Manners are everything, and an ego does not help. And always, ALWAYS, try as hard as you can.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:20 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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I believe that there are elements of the thing which we call manners that are ubiquitous, and parts of them that are culturally determined.

People from virtually all cultures will know when they are being treated in a kind fashion by another person, and will often reciprocate the treatment.

However, manners can also vary from culture to culture. In England, for example, Queen Elizabeth would turn irate if one of her offspring burped at the table in front of dignitaries after finishing dinner. Belching at the dinner table, in England, is considered offensive, since the aforementioned gesture implies that one does not care about controlling his or her bodily functions in front of others. Yet, in other countries, such as Saudi Arabia, belching after eating a meal is acceptable, and is actually an act which is socially encouraged. This form of paracommunication sends the following message to the person who serves the food: "I like the meal, and want more." Contrariwise, refraining from burping after eating food in Saudi Araubi is an insult to the person who prepares food for another individual to consume, since it implies that the person dining does not like the meal which is served.

Thus, I am hesitant to categorize manners as purely global or regional, because, as shown by the illustrations above, manners are an amalgamation of the two elements described herein.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:50 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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QuotidianPerfection wrote:
I found it amusing that you assume that I smoke weed. This is a fallacy--I have never smoked pot in my life.

Jokes and sarcasm, they exist on the Internet too.

Quote:
Now, let me try to phrase my arguments in less cryptic terms. Let's make it simple: suppose Israel was forced to return all Palestinian land, and revert to their pre-1967 borders.

Those are two different things. Before 1967 there was 1948. "All Palestinian land" would be 1948, al-Nakba.

Quote:
They would then have every right to ask the following question: why doesn't the United States give up Alaska and Hawaii?

Hawaii should be granted independence, yes, but the Hawaiians (and Alaskan natives) are not currently being oppressed by the Americans, are they? Are you going to keep ignoring this point?

Quote:
why are we the only country criticized for territorial expansion when other countries, too, expand their boundaries?

Because they are only ones still doing it, today, currently, at present. Stop evading the point.

Quote:
I have noticed that you mention Barrack Obama and Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in the same breath. Barrak Obama is often overbearing in his attempt to control the media, but never treats his constituents in the gruesome manner that Ahmadinejad does. Some individuals, in fact, want Ahmadinejad held acccountable for human rights violations. Here is a link to the story: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/09/17/un-hold-ahmadinejad-accountable-iran-rights-crisis.

You finally found one issue that has substance to it! However, that HRW report is not very damning. Criminals under 18 being executed? Big deal (and little to do with Ahmadinejad as he didn't make the laws). Death sentences increasing? Big fucking deal. Iranians coming from the US suspected of being spies and detained? Wrong but understandable. Persecution/harrassment of dissidents? Pretty bad, though not as bad as reported. The human rights violations in Iran are minor compared to those in other Middle Eastern countries, the worst offenders of which are all supported by the US.

Iran has not attacked anybody in 2500 years. The US has attacked more than 70 nations in its short existence. Chew on that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:31 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi RE Virus:

Consider the following points:

1. When Iraq invaded Saudi Arabia, the Saudis asked the United States to intervene. In other words, the Americans became involved with the Persian Gulf War only after the Unites States were asked to help. Hence, not all Muslim Arab countries hold a contemptous attitude towards Americans.

2. You often make the Nation of Israel seem like bullies. Let me ask you the following questions, though: Is Israel as wealthy as the United Arab Emirates (UAE)? Is Israel as rich as Saudi Arabia? Is Israel as affluent as Dubai? Hence, both Israel and its surrounding Arab countries are blessed equally, albeit in different ways. Israel holds exclusive rights to historical sites, such as the Wailing Wall. On the other hand, Arab countries ascertain an abundance of wealth from selling the oil supplies which lies beneath their grounds.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:32 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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3 strikes on Alcohol in Iran and your executed, does that appeal to you RE. Maybe you might like to explain why Iran has the 2nd biggest Narcotics Anonymous fellowship outside of the USA?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:46 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi crispncrunchy:

Well put.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:45 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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How did the meaning of life turn into a discussion about Arabic countries and the Persian Gulf War?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:36 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Good question, you will work out the answer if you hang around long enough.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:32 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi Baron von Gikkigen and crispncrunchy:

One of my points earlier in this discussion is that the ultimate meaning of life was to attain salvation through Jesus Christ. I also discussed the rapture as one of the ways in which Christ gathers His elect. However, during this discussion, someone argued that most preachers of the rapture support Zionism. Then, this conversation rapidly became discursive.

I learned my lesson, though, and now feel badly that I pushed my Calvanistic beliefs on Merqury City posters. If I knew the negative effect the subject which I raised would have upon Merqury City members, then I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:35 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hey, you don't need to feel bad! Everyone has their beliefs, and they, subconciously or not, do try to convince people to share them. It happens all the time. I respect your beliefs, and I hope you respect mine.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:54 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Thank you, Baron von Gikkigen. That makes me feel much better!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:04 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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No problems! I just want everyone to be happy, and universal peace.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:45 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
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Hi Baron von Gikkigen:

Crafting a world where "everybody" is "happy," and "universal peace" exists, are selfless and noble goals. I am just eager to hear what steps you would take to achieve these dreams.

In my opinion, the first step to ascertaining these ends is informing individuals' about others' cultures.


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