Strict Standards: Only variables should be passed by reference in /home/gravitud/public_html/ssx_forum/includes/arcade/functions_arcade.php on line 626
The Gravitude Bar • View topic - The meaning of life
Back to the SSX Fan Site Gravitude Bar Index
It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:54 amBoard indexFAQSearchArcadeUser Control PanelPrivate MessagesLoginRegister
 



Post new topic Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:00 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:22 pm
Rank: Master
Location: the wilds of Appalachia
PSN: Equinoqs
Forty-two.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:37 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:05 pm
Rank: Superstar
Location: England
XBL: Morph Phoenix
QuotidianPerfection wrote:
Hi Morf:

I believe that, while the secular life is definitely worth appreciating--so long as one behaves ethically--people's ultimate goal in living should be to acquire a perpetual spiritual reward in the hereafter. However, this is just my opinion. I have learned that it is unwise and impolite to push one's religious beliefs on other people. You also bring up a marvelous question in your post: is there a ubiquitous "meaning of life," or are there multiple "meanings of life?"

Take care--I wish you the best of luck in 2012!


Hi Quotidian:

The way you view it seems to be opposite to what I think of life. For many people a spiritual way of life can be extremely rewarding, but I believe people's ultimate goal ought to be to aquire a greater understanding of our place in the universe using methods to aquire truth based on evidence, only because this is what I personally get most reward from. I find that when I learn more about the world, universe, how it all works.. there's nothing more powerful than that for me. It shows me just how lucky I am to even be here, in the great vast universe. Of course my curiosity is such that I can not help but seek news of discoveries :).

As you said, it rarely ever works out when people try to push their views (not just religious views) on people. I can respect you have a religious approach to life, but for me (and I have tried) I could never seem to get anything from it. Each to their own. In the end we must respect each other as fellow human beings, regardless of each persons approach to life.

From my point of view we're here without creation from a being doing so for a reason. Thus in the grandest sense, there is no real meaning to life. And then, for ones own personal meaning of life, that could be anything, and for me is currently the most rewarding.

I wish you luck for 2012 also! It's nice every once in a while to have people be respectful when approaching these types of discussions. A rare event on the internet.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:45 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Morf:

You're welcome--and, thank you for your kind words!

It's a pleasure conversing with a gentleman!

Earnestly speaking, before 2011, I faithfully followed Harold Camping, and his message that the world will end in 2012. My goal during that time involved warning others about the Judgment Day which was going to transpire, at least according to Camping's calculations, on May 21, 2012. During that period of time, I was on a crusade to prove that all teachings regarding Christianity, save for Camping's, were apostate. Needless to say, I have matured quite a bit spiritually ever since Camping's prediction failed to materialize.

People's convictions sometimes behooves them to act in a manner which they deem, from their own perspective, as morally justifiable, when, realistically speaking, their conduct is irrational. Why, for instance, would a person who holds a B.A. and a M.A. Degree in English Literature, and has some doctoral experience in that area of study (I am refering to myself), follow a doomsday preacher who expresses no sympathy for those who haven given away all their possessions to warn the world about Armageddon? Should not a person who has extensive training in logic understand that it reprehensible when a thirteen-year-old girl in Russia commits suicide because she thinks she is one of the retrobate after listening to Camping speak--and, afterward, Camping seems wholly disinterested in the fate of that unfortunate soul?

These questions resulted in my explicating Biblical information for information which could effecuate in my salvic glory. And, for the first time, these interpretations are based on profound readings of Biblical verses. I no longer read Bibles through philosophical screens, which permits me to read them more thoroughly before concluding that a given sect (i.e., Catholic or Prostestant) is, in my opinion, reading a Biblical passage correctly.

However, others may hold different views concerning to religion than I do. Wonderfully, I came across sections in the Bible which promote speaking about Christianity, and its benefit, with others, but prohibit believers from intimidating others into conversions. Ironically, the biggest sense of tension is not between atheist or agnostics and those who invest credence in a Supreme Being, but, instead, between two groups who think their Supreme Being is superior.

Hence, I came to the conclusion that, although I believe in the hereafter, and think that proper behavior on Earth will bring about a glorious Heavenly reward, others do not, some of whom hold the philosophy that one's trek ends with the grave. Although I consider the latter opinion as utterly gloomy, I learned to respect it.

Life, indeed, is a powerful teacher, and transforms people in many wondrous ways.

Take care, and I hope you prosper in whatever you do!

P.S. You write phenominally well!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:00 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:14 am
Rank: Master
Location: Canada
All this time and no one has even looked it up in the dictionary.

_________________
transientb.bandcamp.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:27 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:05 pm
Rank: Superstar
Location: England
XBL: Morph Phoenix
Hello Quotidian:

I have heard of various different people forseeing the end of the world, and I may have heard of Harold Camping. How is it that you became apart of that? Where did it start for you? I find this quite interesting. It's something I couldn't imagine myself going through (I never thought much of end day predictions) so for me to be speaking with you, I'm curious about your experience. You say you matured since the prediction did not occur. Let us imagine that the prediction was instead May 21 2013, do you think you would have gained that maturity, or do you think you would still be following his words and on your own crusade? What are your thoughts on that?

"People's convictions sometimes behooves them to act in a manner which they deem, from their own perspective, as morally justifiable, when, realistically speaking, their conduct is irrational." a wonderful set of words, and it is something I came to realise quite a while ago.

It is a dangerous thing to be able to influence people in such a way without needing to provide a basis of evidence to solidify the words spoken. You mention a 13 year old girl commited suicide. It's such a terrible thing, and such a waste of human life. The most important thing we will ever have is our own lives, and for a child to have been gripped by that mans words to the extent of her taking her own life, it's incredible. For me, that entire scenario speaks loudly to me, and perhaps cements my need for evidence over opinion.

You say that you now read the Bible without a philosophical screen, and you have now an opinion on which sect is reading the Bible correctly. I just wonder how you come to the conclusions that you do? I ask only because I find answers differently, and can't understand your methods. I couldn't imagine basing my knowledge of existence and life on an opinion. Many things can be created from opinions, which contradict. For me, it's much more complex flow when curious of answers. If I were to create a peice of art, I could be of the opinion that it was a fine peice. I would be content, as its creator. But I exist in a vast universe, of which I was one day born. I couldn't be content with myself if I were to pose an opinion on it because I had no part to play in it's formation. So I just wonder what process you go through in order to create an opinion, how do you choose what to believe?

The Bible is an interesting peice. I think people will interpret in the way which they believe best fits their model of existence. I'm sure you wouldn't be of an opinion which would advocate stoning, for example. It is this which I find complex, difficult to follow. I am greatly interested in human psychology, and the way in which people can form their own ideals from the same peice of text. I find that without religion, without a belief system, it is much more simple.

My conclusion to life: I do believe it ends with the grave. Though I don't find this gloomy at all. If I knew that when I went to sleep tonight, I wouldn't wake up, I would appreciate my hours now far more than I would if I knew I'd wake tomorrow. It is the same for my life. If I thought there was an after life, I wouldn't appreciate my time here as much as I do now. I exist, I shall appreciate my moments for as long as I am alive, because I won't get another chance to live. It's a misconception that people tend to have about the non-religious, that we have nothing to live for, when infact we have everything to live for. When family members die, I know I'll never see them again, but I am glad that I got the chance to experience life with them. A long life should be a celebrated death.

Truth be told I used to view death in the same way as you, I used to hate the thought of death being the end, thought it was a horrible way to live thinking you would end. But as I've grown I came to appreciate my place in the universe, and instead of being resentful of having to die, I became glad I got the chance to live.

We live once, why make it a painful experience? Universal acceptance is something all people should aim for. I think there are far too many things in the world which clouds judgement, creates tentions, and causes separation.

I aim to prosper, a happy life, with enough knowledge to satisfy my curious mind each year I live :)

It's nice talking with you, I asked a lot of questions which you don't have to answer. I never get the opportunity to speak with someone like you, in a way which is civil and not aggressive. I am curious of your answers.

"P.S. You write phenominally well!" - You are far too kind sir!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:23 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Morf:

You're welcome--and thank you for your good natured response! I will gladly field your queries.

Morf wrote the following: "I have heard of various different people forseeing the end of the world, and I may have heard of Harold Camping. How is it that you became apart of that? Where did it start for you? I find this quite interesting. It's something I couldn't imagine myself going through (I never thought much of end day predictions) so for me to be speaking with you, I'm curious about your experience. You say you matured since the prediction did not occur. Let us imagine that the prediction was instead May 21 2013, do you think you would have gained that maturity, or do you think you would still be following his words and on your own crusade? What are your thoughts on that?"

As an individual who lacks omniscence, I'm not sure whether or not I would have continued to ascribe to the now-proven heretical teachings of Harold Camping. However, I have always have hoped I was one of God's elect. The preceeding concern, unfortunately would put me at great risk for being a Camping follower. On the other hand, Christians are taught that they must be held responsible for their actions. In fact, the only reason that I did not divorce myself from his philosophies in the past is that Camping appeared to be the type of person who made every conceivable effort to be faithful to Biblical dictates. Upon hearing Camping's callous dismissal of a teenager who suffered a premature death as a result of his teaching, I decided to divorce myself completely from Camping's doctrines. In other words, after the Camping-related teenage tragedy mentioned herein, and Camping's failed May 21, 2011, I discontinued my involvement with his teachings, even though Camping admitted his calculations were erroneous, and the world would really end on October 21, 2011. This, too, proved to be another failed prediction. Hence, I matured in the followed way: I learned to rely on my own analysis of the Bible, rather than someone else's, to plumb the Bible for ethical truths.

Morf wrote the following: "You say that you now read the Bible without a philosophical screen, and you have now an opinion on which sect is reading the Bible correctly. I just wonder how you come to the conclusions that you do? I ask only because I find answers differently, and can't understand your methods. I couldn't imagine basing my knowledge of existence and life on an opinion. Many things can be created from opinions, which contradict. For me, it's much more complex flow when curious of answers. If I were to create a peice of art, I could be of the opinion that it was a fine peice. I would be content, as its creator. But I exist in a vast universe, of which I was one day born. I couldn't be content with myself if I were to pose an opinion on it because I had no part to play in it's formation. So I just wonder what process you go through in order to create an opinion, how do you choose what to believe?"

You second question is tripartite in nature: 1) how do I reach conclusions about Biblical verities, 2) what method do I use in coming to conclusions about Biblical truths, and 3) how do I know if my conclusion is correct or incorrect.

Before answering your question, let me address a great point raised in your post: if the formation of Earth predated my birth, then how can I make accurate assumptions about how it was molded, and finger who designed it with any certainty? In all honestly, I cannot substantiate my belief in creation in a way that would satisfy scientists. Yet, evolution hasn't been proven either--it's just a way of explaining how life came about, and how ancient civilizations became more modernized over a given time span. The followers of creation and evolution both hold intriguing opinions about the manner in which the world was shaped, and are both entitled to their own opinions.

Now, I will give you a laconic answers to all three of your questions.

1. When I read the Bible, I compare a given chapter against other places where that verse appears in the Bible. I still believe that Camping's method of "comparing spiritual things to spiritual things" is a great way to find out what a particular verse means.

2. As pointed out above, I use a comparative reading method to analyze portions of the Bible. Nevertheless, I use only the Bible when searching for spiritual absolutes--I do not stray outside the Good Book for answers.

3. As a human being, it is possible that the conclusions I reach about moral truths might be fallacious. Unlike my past, though, I do not try to impose my convictions on anyone. That way, my misinterpretations of ethical verities will be solely my own, rather than mine and someone else's, too.

In retrospect, the biggest turning point in my life occured when I discovered that I can have my set of perceived ubiquitous truths while, simultaneously, being able to tolerate other convictions equally as strong as mine which may differ from, or even contradict, my own.

Take care, and thank you for sharing your philosophies regarding life with me!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:32 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:01 am
Rank: Master
Location: California
PSN: Emu90
The meaning of life is... I think it's the wrong question because people think that once they find the meaning of life, they know what to do with their lives. I think the meaning of life is a question that has no answer. Our brain is capable of asking such questions e.g. what is beyond the universe? Or how do you see the world from the 11th dimension? Or why are the laws of physics the way they are? Or why did this person or that animal had to die? I can't tell you the meaning of life just as much as I can answer these questions but in my opinion the goal of life is inner peace.

You know, that feeling after all the finals are done or when you have finished something you have been working on something for a long time and you think "I'm happy with this. There is nothing I need to add anymore." You know what I mean?

_________________
Mercury City's official Fortune Teller. *


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:44 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:22 pm
Rank: Master
Location: the wilds of Appalachia
PSN: Equinoqs
To me, the meaning of life is to have as fulfilling of an existence as you can without damaging that of others.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:51 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi TrickyEmu and Equinoqs:

I think you made two very valid points. TrickyEmu opines that certain persons believe "the meaning of life" is a question, rather than an answer. Equinoqs also has an interesting viewpoint: one has every right to search for his or her "meaning of life," but that quest should not impede upon others' investigations to hunt for their "meaning of life," which, by the way, is an interesting "spin" on Thoreavian philosophy (i.e., I'll do what I think is right, and you do what you believe is right). Some individuals, though, many construe "the meaning of life" as trying to file through a narrow hallway of endless locked doors: each time one finds the answer, or key, to unlock the question, or door, they are faced with a more difficult door to open, because the keys become tougher to find. (I take no credit for this belief: its has existed long before I typed it into my post.) Other individuals may have goals which are oppositional to other people's desires, which makes searching for one's "meaning of life" without stampeding upon another individual's right to seek his or her personalized "meaning of life" virtually impossible. I have already opinioned in my post that the purpose of my life on this Earth is to attain a perpetual spiritual life in the hereafter, one of unending bliss. Nevertheless, others may have opinions which might vary from, and even conflict with, my own. Your "takes" on the subject raised by this thread are fascinating, though.

Take care--I hope you both had a fantastic New Year Season!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:22 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:05 pm
Rank: Superstar
Location: England
XBL: Morph Phoenix
Hello Quotidian:

"I learned to rely on my own analysis of the Bible, rather than someone else's, to plumb the Bible for ethical truths".

If I were religious, I imagine that I would be of the same mind to do the same as you here. What better way to seek understanding than to find the meaning yourself. I imagine religion to be a deeply personal thing, and couldn't see myself being satisfied with someone elses interetation of the Bible (example). I always thought though, that the point of church and priests would be to explain what the Bible meant to those who wanted to know? But you do that yourself? How can you be sure you are not wrong, and are instead taking the words of your god differently to how they were meant?

- Just read this = "As a human being, it is possible that the conclusions I reach about moral truths might be fallacious. Unlike my past, though, I do not try to impose my convictions on anyone. That way, my misinterpretations of ethical verities will be solely my own, rather than mine and someone else's, too."

Which raises another question, how do you reach inner peace with your understanding of the world, if you can't be sure you are correct? Do you just accept that you could be wrong, but don't know and will find out when you pass, or do you solidly believe you are not wrong?

The Earth. The beauty of science (at least in my view) is that it backs up what it announces with evidence (gravity, evolution, etc). The same goes with the formation of the Earth, as well as it's age. An accurate idea on how the Earth may have formed, would be a combination of what is known about the universe, one being gravity (without it, there would be no Earth). The idea of design never enters my mind, because that would be a much harder thing to prove, and would be far less likely to be true (complex being exists from nothing, creates the universe from nothing). The universe predates humans, yet humans are capable (using mathematical equations) of sending probs to Mars. Without knowing mathematics, it wouldn't be possible. If scientist were to have just assumed the probe would land on mars (without knowing more about the universe, rules, etc) then it would have been quite an error. Science doesn't make assumptions like that.

Evolution. It's a way of explaining how life adapts to enviroment, how species die, and new being born. It doesn't explain how life came about (as you said). As far as I'm aware, scientists are not able to create life, and are thus unable to answer that question of how life appeared. Why is it you say evolution hasn't been proven? There are thousands of fossil records which show the differencies and growth from species. DNA, seeing how very little difference there is between human and chimp DNA (95-98% the same) which clearly shows relation. Perhaps the most interesting to humans would be the remains of neanderthal and homo erectus since we see how they differ from us, and modern day chimps. I have seen on the internet a lot of people mistaking the definition of scientific theory with how most people would define theory, they aren't the same. Evolution isn't an opinion, it has a lot of evidence to support it. But I'm with you in that people should be free to take what they will from such things. In the end, people will come to their own conclusion, be it with evidence to support their understanding, or with a faith based influence, or perhaps even their own take on everything around them.

"When I read the Bible, I compare a given chapter against other places where that verse appears in the Bible. I still believe that Camping's method of "comparing spiritual things to spiritual things" is a great way to find out what a particular verse means."

I mentioned this a little above, do you not bother with priests and church to help you understand the Bible? Am I wrong in thinking that is the purpose of such things, or is the purpose of a church and a priest something else?

"As pointed out above, I use a comparative reading method to analyze portions of the Bible. Nevertheless, I use only the Bible when searching for spiritual absolutes--I do not stray outside the Good Book for answers."

We differ greatly here. I am always open minded, so long as evidence can be shown. If evolution was disproven tomorrow, I'd accept it. Could you tell me why is it you do not search outside of the Bible? What if you were born into a Sikh family, would you not hold the same mentality that you would not seek for answers outside of the Guru Granth Sahib? Let's say you were born in India, into a Sikh family, how would you be able to find the Bible (that you believe is the book of god) if you would not stray outside of the Sikh holy book? Is it faith alone which limits to what you will allow yourself to consider, or some other reasoning? I do struggle with understanding faith, if my questions seem a little obvious, I assure you I ask only because I can't find the answer myself.

Realise I ask a lot of questions. You needn't answer if you feel you ought, or want not to answer. I'm very used to these types of conversations going sour rather quickly :)

"In retrospect, the biggest turning point in my life occured when I discovered that I can have my set of perceived ubiquitous truths while, simultaneously, being able to tolerate other convictions equally as strong as mine which may differ from, or even contradict, my own."

I agree. It is when humans decide to be intolerant to those who differ, is when conflicts occur. I accept people see things, and depend upon different things to me for answers. It is not my place to tell other people what to believe, or how to live. I have friends who are athiest as I am. But they are quite intolerant to those of faith. Though I agree with their life view, and their love of science.. they are abviously missing something when it comes to their illusion of superiority, which I find a lot of athiests possess.

I respond by dealing with each paragraph at a time, so if you're unsure what it is you said that I am responding to (I forgot to quote you for all of my post) then refer back to your previous.

Take care (^_^)b

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:05 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Morf:

If I understand you correctly, you wanted to know, if I truly harbored an open-mindset about "the meaning of life," why I continue to view the subject through a Calvanistic lens. To be frank, there is one reasons why I delineate in this manner: dogma. As RE Virus has pointed out, some scientists were former evolution proponents, who, after becoming born-again Christians, use the scientific method to attempt to disprove evolution. Does that mean that such individual deny that black holes, quarks, slowing down time in particle accelerators, and creating temperatures hotter than the Sun on Earth are myths? No. It just means that such persons would refuse to acknowledge that 1) the Earth took billions of years to form, and 2) mankind evolved from apes. The trouble I have with evolution, aside from the fact that it does not promise well-behaved individuals who devote themselves to Christian principles a perpetual blissful existence in the afterlife, is that it seems to forget that many Biblical places (e.g., Jerusalem and Canaan) can be located on a map, and many physical Biblical items (e.g., the Noah's Ark and the Dead Sea Scrolls) have been found. I also take issue with a scientific model which fails to explain how one can make the jump from primates, who possess very little appreciation for their actions, to humans, the majority of whom can clearly distinguish right from wrong. Since an element of faith is involved in one believing in certain models which offer opinions on, but cannot prove, how the Earth first came into existence, I have reached the conclusion that evolution, like Christianity, is a religion, albeit one which I choose not to believe in. Even evolution supporters, like Stephen Hawking, admit that no one can prove if the Big Bang happened, when it happened, how it transpired, where it occured, or why it took place. The same holds true for Christians--they cannot prove, to scientific satisfaction, the precise place and time Creation transpired, nor can they conclusively explain or causally depict God's design of the Earth to the degree scientists would find acceptable. You are right, though--forcing Christians to accept evolution is just as bad as coercing evolutionists to believe in Christianity. Each person harbors his or her own philosophical principles regarding the subject of religion, and people need to permit such individuals to think freely, instead of trying to censor their thoughts.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:12 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:05 pm
Rank: Superstar
Location: England
XBL: Morph Phoenix
"If I understand you correctly, you wanted to know, if I truly harbored an open-mindset about "the meaning of life," why I continue to view the subject through a Calvanistic lens. To be frank, there is one reasons why I delineate in this manner: dogma. As RE Virus has pointed out, some scientists were former evolution proponents, who, after becoming born-again Christians, use the scientific method to attempt to disprove evolution."

Yes, I wondered what guides your overall thought process, upon which you accept and dismiss. The description of scientists being born again christians would have nothing to do with the failing of science. but as you said it, having been christian before (born again) and having trouble casting away a teaching they were bought up on. I've read stories of how difficult it can be for people who were raised religious, to find science and dismiss that which they were told to be truth. I can imagine the same being with these scientists. Such is the power of faith. It hold no reason on the knowledge of evolution I feel.

"Does that mean that such individual deny that black holes, quarks, slowing down time in particle accelerators, and creating temperatures hotter than the Sun on Earth are myths? No. It just means that such persons would refuse to acknowledge that 1) the Earth took billions of years to form, and 2) mankind evolved from apes. The trouble I have with evolution, aside from the fact that it does not promise well-behaved individuals who devote themselves to Christian principles a perpetual blissful existence in the afterlife, is that it seems to forget that many Biblical places (e.g., Jerusalem and Canaan) can be located on a map, and many physical Biblical items (e.g., the Noah's Ark and the Dead Sea Scrolls) have been found. I also take issue with a scientific model which fails to explain how one can make the jump from primates, who possess very little appreciation for their actions, to humans, the majority of whom can clearly distinguish right from wrong."

You believe the earth was created in 6 days? And the Earth is just 6000 years old? (from my knowledge is the thought within the Bible). The age can be proven incorrect, by a large margin. In the same way science has created vacinations by discovering the very small, it has also created a way to date things through various methods. I'm sure you know this, I mention is purely to show you my perspective on things. As for human from an ape. It would be difficult to imagine us evolving from modern day chimps for example, but then that isn't what evolution says, we evolved from an ape which was more human like (walked upright). It has been shown that chimps have things like "you help me, I help you" attitudes, they have social hierarchy, etc. The evolution model can explain such differencies. No animal of different species are equal, in inteligence, shape, mode, etc. Same goes for the ape which came before us. We are an improved being, as for evolution, humans (if we do not destroy ourselves) will eventually evolve into an entirely new species, I imagine one with greater intelligence, since it is something we depend on for progress. Evolution isn't a "jump" from species to species either, it's a gradual (and very slow) change. Natural selection, survival of the fittest, ensures this gradual change and adaptation. Evolution does explain how it's possible for a species to change into another. I'm not sure if you just don't want to accept it, or if there is something I am not understanding here. You're consistantly stating incorrectly about evolution.

The existance of humans has outdated the existance of the Bible by tens of thousands of years. As far as religion goes, christianity is quite infant in age. Do you believe in Noahs Ark, the story told, as something which one day occured?

"Since an element of faith is involved in one believing in certain models which offer opinions on, but cannot prove, how the Earth first came into existence, I have reached the conclusion that evolution, like Christianity, is a religion, albeit one which I choose not to believe in. Even evolution supporters, like Stephen Hawking, admit that no one can prove if the Big Bang happened, when it happened, how it transpired, where it occured, or why it took place. The same holds true for Christians--they cannot prove, to scientific satisfaction, the precise place and time Creation transpired, nor can they conclusively explain or causally depict God's design of the Earth to the degree scientists would find acceptable. You are right, though--forcing Christians to accept evolution is just as bad as coercing evolutionists to believe in Christianity. Each person harbors his or her own philosophical principles regarding the subject of religion, and people need to permit such individuals to think freely, instead of trying to censor their thoughts."

I can agree that some things would require faith to believe in, things like the big bang theory explaining how things started, faith in that we will one day find the answers to the unknown. But evolution, which is a proven fact, doesn't require faith, I don't understand how you're making that connection between faith and evolution. Faith requires belief without evidence, so by definition, evolution can not be a faith based concept, since it has mountains of evidence to support its claim. I have never understood why the religious seem to need to deem scientific things as faith based, science is evidence based, the difference is what causes my lack of understanding in how you could come to the conslusion of evolution = religion.

"The trouble I have with evolution, aside from the fact that it does not promise well-behaved individuals who devote themselves to Christian principles a perpetual blissful existence in the afterlife"

I have a problem with this teaching. I am a well behaved humans being, but I don't need the promise of a blissful existance in teh afterlife. I couldn't imagine using this as a reason to deny something either. I think it's much better to be a good person because you are a good person, and not just because of what you have been promised, as an incentive to do good. Does a death with no life scare you?

Take care (^_^)b
-----

I will add: I accept what you believe, and I understand how faith works, without needing to rely on evidence to believe. As my part of accepting you and your belief, I understand it. Even though you accept how I think, I feel you are changing the definition to suit yourself, which isn't a form of acceptance. And you do claim to be accepting, so why do you change that which you claim to accept? You can't accept something fully if you are thinking of changing it.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:41 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Morf:

To answer your question, as a critical thinker, I possess the ability to listen to different perspectives, and formulate a viewpoint after hearing a plethora of different philosophies being advanced. However, as soon as the subject involves theology, I have a tendency to hold steadfast to my Biblical beliefs. I am of the opinion that God "created" the Earth "in six days," that the Earth is between 10,000 and 15,000 years old, and that the accounting of Noah's ark in the Bible constitutes a historical verity, rather than a myth.

There is information on the web, entitled "Evolution or Creation?," which implies the inconsistencies that are inherent with Darwinism: http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/arguments.shtml. Evolutionists, too, who use C-14 dating to prove that the Earth existed for billions of years are misapplying the Radio Carbon Dating process to analyze something that is beyond the scope of C-14 testing, which the following article (i.e., "Carbon Dating: It Doesn't Prove An Old Earth") suggests: http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/carbon.htm.

Also, I am a person who could not conduct myself in a morally upright manner if there was no blissful and eternal existence to look forward to as a reward for acting in a scrupulous manner during my secular life.

Nevertheless, once a person changes the subject from "the meaning of life" to "personal beliefs regarding the meaning of life," then the subject becomes far less tensive. Simply put, whenever opinions, rather than theology (I still regard Darwinism as a religion) are discussed, it is much easier to maintain an open mind about different belief systems. From experience, subjects which encourage one to put themselves in either the Creation or evolution camp places effectuates in adherents in both camps to prove their credos, while simultaneously, refuting the other person's arguments, rather than engaging in an open exchange of ideas with a person who harbors a diametrically opposed theological conviction. Yet, when people share, rather than debate their religious opinions, with each other, both persons can learn about another's perspective, and respect it more readily, in lieu of a debate where both sides attempt to outdo each other, and emerge victorious.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:48 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Gravitude MVP
User avatar
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:43 pm
Scoreboard Honors: 2
  • SSX 3: Overall: #2
  • SSX 3: Racing: #3
Rank: Gravitude MVP
There is no better way to understand evolution than to watch North Korean documentaries on animal behavior while on a high dose of psilocybin mushrooms. Or so I have heard.

We are a product of infinite probability; our Gods are wholly-insufficient imaginative explanations attempting to account for the impossibility of understanding the cosmos.

_________________
Image
Are you a patriot? Then spend 1 hour reading this site.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:54 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi RE Virus:

According to Stephen Hawking, "Everything breaks down at the Big Bang." This means that we are unable to know whether or not a giant cosmic explosion created the primordial soup necessary to form life over eons, or if a Supreme Being sculpted our universe. Jim Al-Khalili, a quantum physicist, wrote in his book Black Holes, Worm Holes, and Time Machines that our cosmos could have began as a Big Crunch (i.e., the most dense black hole which is mathematically possible) which exploded into a Big Bang (i.e., the most poweful white hole, according to quantam physics)--thereby expanding our universe--and will collapse into a Big Crunch in the future. The process will then repeat itself ad infitum. (For those who are unfamiliar with the terms white hole and black hole, a white hole is an entity which nothing can fall into whereas a black hole is a region of space that nothing can escape from.) On the other hand, St. Thomas Acquinas argues for the theory of creation by opining that all effects must be preceeded by causes. According to Acquinas, the universe did not just form out of chaos--God created both our cosmos and the laws which govern it. Scientist and Christian practictioner Dr. Henry M. Morris also provides a brilliant refutation of Darwinism in his article "The Scientific Case Against Evolution" (http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_scientificcaseagainstevolution/). I feel that arguments over whether humans were created or evolved from a lesser species will never be conclusively proven, and, as a consequence, always will end in a stalemate.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:31 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:39 am
Rank: Sensei
XBL: Resetting
PSN: IDontHaveAPS3
"happiness"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:50 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Resetting:

We all seek "happiness." And, while I believe that there is much joy to be experienced in people's secular lifetimes, I am of the opinion that they can potentially have unending bliss bestowed upon them by God in the hereafter.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:33 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:14 am
Rank: Master
Location: Canada
QuotidianPerfection wrote:
St. Thomas Acquinas argues for the theory of creation by opining that all effects must be preceeded by causes.


Finding a cause that is not itself an effect is something that exist outside of causality and nature itself. Kant argued that we necessarily see things as adhering to causality, meaning that uncaused causes are beyond the scope of human understanding. Meaning that talking about God as an uncaused cause is literally talking metaphysical gibberish. It's hard not to become extremely agnostic when you get deep into Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.

_________________
transientb.bandcamp.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:18 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi doyle:

St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica provides a strong argument that Someone, whom he names as God, had to create our universe by opining that it couldn't have suddenly come into existence--there had to be a beginning to it. And, according to Thomism, if the universe was conceived at some point, then it must have had a Creator.

I am also perplexed why scientists believe that certain fundamental physical rules shape how our cosmos behave, while, simultaneously, failing to name a rational reason why human beings should accept the theory of evolution as truth. The following "Interesting Quotations from Scientists on Evolutionism" suggest that, while many quotes of evolutions imply that God sculpted our cosmosphere, they will not "admit that 'God did it,'" since "Such a confession flies in the face of their natural presuppositionalism" (http://www.aboundingjoy.com/scientists.htm).

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:18 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi doyle:

St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica provides a strong argument that Someone, whom he names as God, had to create our universe by opining that it couldn't have suddenly come into existence--there had to be a beginning to it. And, according to Thomism, if the universe was conceived at some point, then it must have had a Creator.

I am also perplexed why scientists believe that certain fundamental physical rules shape how our cosmos behave, while, simultaneously, failing to name a rational reason why human beings should accept the theory of evolution as truth. The following "Interesting Quotations from Scientists on Evolutionism" suggest that, while many quotes of evolutions imply that God sculpted our cosmosphere, they will not "admit that 'God did it,'" since "Such a confession flies in the face of their natural presuppositionalism" (http://www.aboundingjoy.com/scientists.htm).

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:27 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:31 am
Rank: Master
There is no logical reason that the answer to this question should be God.

_________________
ImageCharmy comes in all different colors - UrbanDictionary.com


Last edited by Midian on Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:33 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi Midian:

Stephen W. Hawking writes, in his Brief History of Time: From Big Bangs to Black Holes, that one cannot know what happened prior to the big bang. Hence, one can never know whether God created our cosmos, or if it evolved over time. Nevertheless, I do not believe that organisms can "jump" from single-celled entities to human beings, complex organisms which are capable of reason. Rather, I believed that humanity's anatomy and delineations are so well-structured that this effect could not arise haphazardly--a Creator had to cause the preceeding to happen. (I take no opinion for this belief, as others have voiced the preceding opinion long before I did.) On that basis, I reject evolutism and accept the creation theory. Nevertheless, I respect your beliefs, and feel that your hypothesis that, in the future, scientists will be able to know precisely how our universe was formulated, is very well argued.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:21 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:01 pm
Rank: Natural
PSN: Dieeeeee
“Life is a waste of time, and time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!”

Really though, IMO life has too many variables to be boiled down into one concrete meaning. The only commonality is the end destination and even that isn't certain to be the end. So the best thing to do really is just live and be happy. If there's nothing out there when you die, you had fun while it lasted and if there is something...well...hopefully it's as good or better than life.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:07 pm  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:05 pm
Rank: Master
Location: United States
Hi naridill:

I agree that one can argue that "I might as well get the most out my life now in case there is no afterlife." However, what if there is a Hell, and the atheist or agnostic gets sent to it? When put in this context, "living carefree with no regard fo the afterlife" will seem a phyrric victory when compared to the infinite amount of time that person will have to writhe in agony in Gehenna. While I certainly respect your opinion, I also am eager to hear your feedback on the concern highlighted above.

Take care.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:54 am  Post subject: Re: The meaning of life  
User avatar
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:01 pm
Rank: Natural
PSN: Dieeeeee
Quotidian:

I'm agnostic, bordering more towards there's probably nothing there. I'd like to think if there is something out there, it isn't the god that created us in his own image. If that were the god that existed, most of us would be damned just for being the way god made us, which just seems like a bit of a dick move on god's part. I'm also not willing to revere a god that believes eternal damnation is the right punishment. It just makes god out to be a little bit petty I think.

While I respect the faiths of others, I'm not willing to place my hat in any specific ring anymore. I'd rather just try and be as good a person I can be, not out of fear of going to Hell, Gehenna, Inferno, Naraka etc. if i don't, but because I want to be. Doing good stuff out of fear of punishment if they don't brings into question people's motives I think. Are they doing it because they're good and genuinely care or are they pretending to be good to get off of God's naughty list?

While you say it'd be phyrric if i lived life well and wound up in the underworld (i agree it would be, but I'm not willing to change until something concrete and indisputable is laid out in front of me), wouldn't it also be phyrric to follow the religious life and it turns out you worshiped the wrong god or there was nothing there at all? Everyone is taking a risk with what they believe the afterlife holds, if anything.

Hope that answered your questions. Take care.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next


Jump to:  



Information
Page 8 of 9 [ 219 posts ]  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Show or Hide Information
cron


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group