See, I don't think there's a piece to this that you aren't quite understanding. Let's say for arguement's sake that Bush didn't want to go to war. Well, now he's got not only Saddam still in power in Iraq doing God knows what (planning attacks on Israel, planning attacks on us, killing more of his own people, allowing Al Queda to train in Iraq, etc.), but now he's got his entire Congress and over half the country upset at him for not taking action. All the finger pointing about Bush and the war came long after we were already in and the results had already turned up (if you don't recall, Bush's approval rating on foreign affairs was somewhere in the 80% range after he sent troops into Iraq). For most of the people who now argue against the war, it's more of a "Gee, it seemed like a good idea at the time" point of view and they hammer Bush to no end like it's one man's fault. The entire country for the most part wanted it, so the entire country got it. Now... do you get it? I have no problems with people who don't care for Bush, that's your opinion and that's fine, but I hate finger pointing when it's not all deservant.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Ok I now changed the title to War in Iraq so more can be disscused so nad go on about your bush thing you were talking about before

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He's been talking about that for the past 9 months. Nothing new. Same lies.

The president is a puppet. The decision to go to war with Iraq was made a long long time ago. Al-Qaida was trained by the US Govt. FBI were prevented from detaining Al-Qaida by orders signed by Bush. Bin Ladens family in the US were flown out of the country even when all aircraft were still grounded after the attack. Bin Laden and Bush family go back a long way. Alpmaster, they did go to Iraq for the oil, among other things.
Before the war it was all, oh he's got WMD that can be launched within 15 mins etc. When the war started it was sod the WMD we just want to get Saddam out. Now it's let's use their oil money to fund more wars. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 yet this was the event that started their war on terrorism which saw the Taliban (created by the CIA) removed (starved and killed by NA) and then Saddams regime removed. Everybody know about the planned pipeline through Afganistan and Iraq?

The war on terrorism cannot be won by using terror. Expect more and more terrorist attacks as the US attempts to exercise it's power as a global super-power.

Someone said it was the choice of the people to go to war but the people are easily led by propaganda and fear. People should learn the facts about these events especially when it involves charging into a country to change the regime based on no real evidence.
A good film to watch about this topic is called "Uncovered - The Whole Truth About The Iraq War" which I believe is available on suprnova.

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Sig Provided Courtesy Of Sigmaster Flexxx.

Since 1990: Russia, Israel, Palestine, Serbia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Great Britain, SADDAM HIMSELF... all said that Saddam had WMDs and that he would use them on Israel and even the US. Even the Clinton administration recognized Saddam as having the weapons. Saddam didn't let the US inspect the entire region of Iraq including specific areas where he himself was located.

So the scenario was this: After 9/11, we go to war with Afghanastan to fight terrorism, specifically Al-Queda. Al-Queda then sets up its camps in Iraq and starts doing business with Saddam. Although Saddam didn't have anything to do with 9/11 (which is still up for debate anyway), right after 9/11 he became directly involved. Multiple nations and the man himself said there were WMDs and Saddam even said what he was thinking about doing with them. He doesn't let us inspect specific regions.............

What to do? What to do? Oh, I know... we take no chances and we go in and capture this guy. Oh wait, we did that. Well, I guess that was a good decision.

But hold on, we didn't find any WMDs, we were lied to!!!

It turns out, we found enough chemical weapons to have the capacity to kill over half a million people. We dismantled them. Well, I guess that was a good decision.

What's this? Libya is turning their weapons over to the US once they saw the US meant business in Iraq and admits they were planning on using them for evil purposes. Well, I guess that was a good decision.

But what about the oil? THE OIL!?!? We HAD to have gone to war for the oil.

Drops of oil touched by the US since war in Iraq began: Zero.
Prices for barrels of oil being sold to US by Iraq since the war began: All time high.
Gas prices in US since the war in Iraq began: So high it'll make you tear up.

But it doesn't make sense, Cheney's oil company became immediately involved with Iraq right after the war began, that proves the US went to war for oil, right?

Cheney's oil company went to play middle man for the struggling Europeans who were directly affected by the war because Iraq cut off all means of trade of oil to most countries and to countries like France, they jacked the export tax of oil up so high it was economic suicide. Europeans should thank God that the oil company took control of the matter or else they would be economically desimated. By the way, that drops of oil count for the US is still at zero.

But what about Iraq right now? Aren't things going terribly over there?

Well, if you like to believe everything CBS tells you, then I guess it is, but when the new Prime Minister of Iraq himself says that our liberal media is a liar and that the US is beating the hell out of the terrorists, and not just by a little bit, but by a tremendous margin, then maybe, just maybe it looks like George Bush has been credible all along, and that's why Bush's approval numbers are slowly going back up with every day and that's why he'll win the election.

Hmmm, it's still all a little vague to me, maybe I'll just go pop in a documentary movie to see what's going on.

Michael Moore has several million dollar lawsuits filed against him for false information in what was supposed to be a biased "factual" documentary. Although I'm not entirely sure, I believe the number of untrue items in F-9/11 is over 50. Believe any movie that you want to if you so choose, just don't believe that you'll then know everything that's happened.

Case and point: The war has been and is continueing to be a tremendous success and with each day, George Bush is looking better and better, and not because a conservative like myself says so, but because all the numbers say so.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Sadam is NOT guilty

Where your argument sadly fails. That is complete bullshit; Saddam never had anything to do with Al-Qaida, ever. So stop making up shit.

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Where my arguement sadly fails? Sadly fails? Saddam NEVER had anything to do wtih Al-Qaeda? I'm making up shit?

Is this guy serious?



"OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohamed Atta--according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by THE WEEKLY STANDARD.

The memo, dated October 27, 2003, was sent from Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith to Senators Pat Roberts and Jay Rockefeller, the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. It was written in response to a request from the committee as part of its investigation into prewar intelligence claims made by the administration. Intelligence reporting included in the 16-page memo comes from a variety of domestic and foreign agencies, including the FBI, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Security Agency. Much of the evidence is detailed, conclusive, and corroborated by multiple sources. Some of it is new information obtained in custodial interviews with high-level al Qaeda terrorists and Iraqi officials, and some of it is more than a decade old. The picture that emerges is one of a history of collaboration between two of America's most determined and dangerous enemies.

According to the memo--which lays out the intelligence in 50 numbered points--Iraq-al Qaeda contacts began in 1990 and continued through mid-March 2003, days before the Iraq War began. Most of the numbered passages contain straight, fact-based intelligence reporting, which in some cases includes an evaluation of the credibility of the source. This reporting is often followed by commentary and analysis.

The relationship began shortly before the first Gulf War. According to reporting in the memo, bin Laden sent "emissaries to Jordan in 1990 to meet with Iraqi government officials." At some unspecified point in 1991, according to a CIA analysis, "Iraq sought Sudan's assistance to establish links to al Qaeda." The outreach went in both directions. According to 1993 CIA reporting cited in the memo, "bin Laden wanted to expand his organization's capabilities through ties with Iraq."

The primary go-between throughout these early stages was Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi, a leader of the al Qaeda-affiliated National Islamic Front. Numerous sources have confirmed this. One defector reported that "al-Turabi was instrumental in arranging the Iraqi-al Qaeda relationship. The defector said Iraq sought al Qaeda influence through its connections with Afghanistan, to facilitate the transshipment of proscribed weapons and equipment to Iraq. In return, Iraq provided al Qaeda with training and instructors.""



...... this memo is much longer and more specifically detailed with items pertaining to camps set up in Iraq after 9/11. Remember, American memos cannot be published and accessed unless they are declared factual.



You are the most ignorant person at MC.com. The fact that out of all that I wrote in my previous arguement, you quoted me on Al-Qaeda and Saddam and basically called me a bullshitter shows that you have no business discussing these sort of topics with us... it's sad, really.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

I know, hard to believe...

If it was anyone other than you, Alpmaster, I'd probably respond with something vile to that statement.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

I'm so sorry it had to come to this.......

Because I'm really going to believe an American memo dated at the time when Bush was desperately trying to find any reason at all for going to war in Iraq? No, sorry.

Also PD, you have to be the most arrogant person I have had the misfortune of talking to on any medium in my life.

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No, it's because you're really going to believe an offical American document dated from the Bush Sr Administration through the entire Clinton Administration to W Bush's current Administration. Besides, everyone in the world knew Al Qaeda and Saddam were linked except for you I guess. Does the UK not get news there? Damn foreigners. I don't even know why I bother.

By the way, Americans have every right to be arrogant, cocky, and throw our power around. Why you ask? Well, let's see how good you or the rest of the world would do if you didn't have to rely on your daddy nation. I'm tired of us carrying around foreign bitches. Everyone for themselves, I say.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Ouroboros, I gave up on the Americans right after they managed to discuss away 'Bowling for Columbine', and let Bush stay when he forged his election results. Now Republicans claim Kerry is gonna drop the bible, showing they really stop at nothing to get their way.

The US should hand over control to (an improved) United Nations, and help deal (to a great extend) with the mess they created in Iraq. Furthermore they should drop their support for Israel, and instead support stability in the region - for all (meaning unbiased). This they will not do, and we will see the results soon enough.

You call me ignorant, yet refer to America as "my daddy nation"? Dear oh dear...

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When Bush forged his election results? This is the first time I've ever heard this arguement. Last I remember, he won more electorial votes than Gore although Gore won more total votes, but the electorial votes are all that matters. If the US hands control over the UN, this is what will most likely happen. Troops will pulled out of Iraq. Israel will be attacked from all sides. The terrorists will build to incredible strengths and the first place they'll come for is the US in a much more massive attack than 9/11. World War III will then commence and nuclear weapons will be used. The UN is the most evil creation on the planet. They are in support of one world government, the most unbalanced and detrimental idea in the history of the world. And foreigners think John Kerry is the answer, but John Kerry wants to go to war with N. Korea and Iran and he wants to continue to purge into Iraq, he's more of a war monger than Bush. The results you refer to that we'll see soon enough is one of stability rather than chaos. The US is one more WMD scare away from throwing nukes around like they're candy. When that happens, the rest of the world will be scared shitless and order will come about. It takes war to prevent war.

Ouroboros, you are ignorant. The UK, the most poweful European nation, would be the best off of all the Euro countries if the US pulled it's plug on them, but places like France and Spain would struggle to no end, and guess who they'd turn to? You guessed it... YOU! Now let's see the UK pick up the slack they can't afford to pick up.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

Funny. In his acceptance speech he said he would not go to war.


He most certainly did. How? By denying ethnic minorities and other suspected democrats the right to vote in Florida with the help of his brother Jeb.

Also please explain what you mean by "pull the plug" on Europe.

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After reading this I have finally found peace with the world. Lets drink to a more healthy, post-all-out-nuclear-strike, world peace...

And another one for Bush, who will give it to us...

I wanted to include a whole bunch of china's after this, but then I realised China wouldn't be there anymore. So hopefully one of the billion or so will survive, and here he is.. /

And that's why John Kerry is known as a flip-flopper because he changed his mind and his current stance is towards forcing out terrorists.

The Florida debacle was 100% the democrats fault. The liberal media announced that Gore had won Florida before the central time zoned rural republicans could even vote, not to mention Gore made sure that the overseas military vote, which counts for Florida votes, didn't count. The US military is by far more republican than democrat. If they did the entire state over again and everyone had their fair chance to vote, Bush probably would have won by a wide margin. By the way, the democrats themselves recounted votes in 3 liberal counties and all 3 times Bush's margin of victory INCREASED. Jeb Bush had nothing to do with the voting, that's just your assumption because he's governor. The point is, the democrats screwed with the entire process multiple times and each time they still lost, and if you don't recall, Bush himself had nothing to do with Florida. He had nothing to do with the process, only Gore's lawyers did. Bush won it fair and square. If you don't believe that's the case, it's only because you probably think that little of Bush just to assume it to the point that you actually believe it to be true. The man is a good man, give him credit for once.

"Pull the plug"... in that we control your source for oil, we control your export taxing, we control your economic flow by playing middle man for you and other countries. If we get out completely and leave you to yourselves, no one will want to do business with you. We'll take France for example, no one gives a crap about France. If France doesn't have us, they have no one, and they won't be able to function, so they'll run to Great Britain to bail them out. Great Britain is a powerful nation, but they can't afford to hold the heads up of France and Spain and the Netherlands and Belgium and probably even Germany and Poland among others. It's a chain reaction. The US gets out, the economic downfall begins. You can deny it and say that you'll be fine, but you won't know what to do about trading exports or oil. That's another reason why getting Saddam out was a good idea for Euros. At least if the US stops doing oil business with Iraq, the export tax for oil won't be astronimically absurd to the Euros, although it'll still be tough.

And Ettepet, I'm glad you agree. People will learn not to mess with us, even if it means learning the hard way. And you better believe China better watch themselves, because the whole world knows what they're up to, they just better not get cocky because they can't hang with us tactically.

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"I'm the bullet crack in your diamond pimp cup."


PD~

What is a bit of nuclear fall-out, and a steep increase of deliberate food-poisening in chinese take-aways, against all the profits we will get, like the total elimination of all life above 100 meters below the surface? I ask you..

I call dibs on being the vault-dweller!

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[img]Does%20the%20UK%20not%20get%20news%20there?%20Damn%20foreigners.%20I%20don't%20even%20know%20why%20I%20bother.[/img]

Uh that's actually very wrong. The Amercan news doesn't tell everything, mostly in favor of America is what is said. Either that, or something to scare the people of America.

I watch the French news, and they tell A LOT more than American news. Yea France is pretty hated by America, but they still don't say ONLY shit that favors france. I watched the news in Portugal, and also everything is said, half the shit americans wouldnt even know about.

All the english news ever goes on about is fucking Iraq, frankly I'm sick of it all. I mean ffs, I dun care what the hell they do as long as they fucking do it. And no offence but the only thing I remember bout the Iraq war is the Americans shooting down one of our choppers... but there you are.

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Midian: Real authentic stuff is the pizza the Teenage mutant Ninja Turtles eat. Fast, cheap and sloppy
Midian: Like NA
CurryKing: I wanted the title to be: This image is in no way grooming you for Thor's mighty hammer

It'd be stupid to make a whole topic for this, so I chose this topic. I found these quite amusing:

1. Only in America......can a pizza get to your house faster than an
ambulance.

2. Only in America......are there handicap parking places in front of a skating
rink.

3. Only in America......do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to the back of the store to get their prescriptions while healthy people can buy cigarettes at the front.

4. Only in America......do people order double cheese burgers, large fries, and a diet Coke.

5. Only in America......do banks leave both doors to the vault open and then
chain the pens to the counters.

6. Only in America......do we leave cars worth thousands of dollars in the
driveway and put our useless junk in the garage.

7. Only in America......do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have call waiting so we won't miss a call from someone we didn't want to talk to in the first place.

8. Only in America......do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in
packages of eight.

9. Only in America......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.

10. Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille
lettering.

Hahahha all of that is soooo true. Except for the Handicapped spot one, I have been to many an ice skating rink with my paralyzed friend.

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Sarah and Joanne are wrong- this stays in here until it's proven.