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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:35 pm  Post subject: Do you see there ever being a non Christian President?  
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:36 am  Post subject: Re: Do you see there ever being a non Christian President?  
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Oh yes, definitely. Firstly because we're talking insanely long periods of time here - for all we know, it might not be that long until another religion or lack thereof is dominant in the US. Furthermore, the general trend of secularization in society, I believe will keep going. There's a little bit of bounceback from religion in the Western World as of recent, but that's not necessary an increase in religious people, as far as I know, and rather that previously passive religious people have become active, or active ones have become more active. Of course, this leads to religion having a bigger place in society overall, but in terms of politics, one person has one vote and that's it. Regardless of how strong your religious beliefs are. Not to mention, religion is facing some massive criticism for things both past and present. Yeah, I can see the US having a president of a different faith in the future. Now, if you had asked near future (like a couple decades), I'd probably say no, but I won't be SURPRISED, per se. If it is to happen in the near future, I believe it's much more likely to be an atheist or a belief in this general area rather than a different religion.

Opinion from Norway, not a native American.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:01 pm  Post subject: Re: Do you see there ever being a non Christian President?  
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Hi Khalpz and 898ppp:

I think the beauty about the United States of America is that its constituents can vote for whomever they think will do the best job of leading the country. In terms of politics, I hold conservative Christian views, but will be the first person to speak out against any type of bigotry. In my opinion, just because one is diametrically opposed to different lifestyles does not give that individual license to threaten and harm them. This is why I am not a theonomist, a person who feels that every Mosaic code in the Old Testament applies to contemporary life, as the penal code of the Mosaic Law is fulfilled by Christ on the cross. All that remains today is for individuals to consider, as cited in the Westminster Confession, the general equity of the Law. For instance, when God ordered adulterers to be stoned to death in the Old Testament, He meant that punishment to be indicative of a more profound truth: God's fiery wrath in Hell if a person does not repent of this and other sins. Hence, preachers of the Gospel today just have to speak earnestly to individuals what the eternal consequences of certain types of conduct will be, and this does not entail following the letter of the Civil Code. While I often share my worldview with others, though, I'm not (as I made the mistake of doing in the past when I was a Harold Camping follower) going to force my metaphysical beliefs on anyone. I will simply present an argument, and allow the other person to consider whether or not it is forceful enough to accept. For this reason, I tend to vote for conservative candidates. This election, I am supporting Ted Cruz, not because I abhor agnostic and atheists, but because I think that American radicals are persecuting Christians. Today's PC society, which I am not a part of, apologizes when Muslims are offended by conservative politicians who refuse to let the pollutants of Sharia Law enter the United States, yet remain silent when a Catholic priest is crucified by ISIS, who actions of child rape and burning captives alive speak volumes of their wickedness.

On the other hand, I abhor capitalism--at least the way it is practiced today. It is pitiful to see the lachrymose sentiment forged into a child after a sports superstar refuses to sign an autograph for them because they do not have enough money to pay the fee. When Bernie Sanders believes that everyone deserves a free college education, I completely agree with him. This way, individuals with less money cannot be subjugated to manual labor at the hands of Junior. For all we know, Senior, although possibly unlikable, might have illustrated by his work in a specific company that he is an indispensable commodity, while Junior can possibly be a dimwit, yet get away with intimidating others based on the capital he possesses. Donald Trump, in my opinion, certainly does not possess anemic academic skills, as his Degree from the Wharton School of Business indicates. However, his whole campaign is based on the crybaby claim that "I have money, so I can get what I want." Although I did not like all of Barrack Obama's policies, I voted for him during his first run because 1) I wanted to give an African-American (I always hated the negative reasons given by certain persons as to why electing black presidents are wrong) the chance to be president (I'll vote for anyone from now one, regardless of race and gender, as long as they are not a political radical) and 2) I thought that he could offer a socialist policy that would challenge capitalist tyranny. Nevertheless, Obama's ideology proved pointless, as, while he preached socialism, his supporters in the White House spent taxpayer money extravagantly on personal demands. The second term, I opted to vote for Mitt Romney, hoping he can undo some of the economic damage caused by the Obama administration. Under no circumstances will I vote for Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, as 1) I cannot be assured whether or not they will be true to their socialist claims, and 2) they want to give nuclear weapons to an Iranian Ayatollah who is nuts. If the Iranian Ayatollah possesses the weapon, the security of the United States and Israel are constantly are risk.

So, in the end, my preferable choice is a Christian president, regardless of that individual's color or gender.

By no means though, will I refuse to vote an atheist president, if all candidates were atheist, provided that he does not attempt to stymie the growth of Christianity and another benevolently practiced religions (including Islam) in the United States, although I think that many atheists are predisposed to a naturalistic worldview--one where even morality evolves--which is why I think it will take some time before we see an atheist as an American President, despite the fact certain people claim Abraham Lincoln might have held a non-theistic worldview.

Take care, My Friends!

Best Wishes to Both of You,
QuotidianPerfection


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:02 am  Post subject: Re: Do you see there ever being a non Christian President?  
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I agree with 898ppp that religious affiliation seems to be declining in the West as of recent. However, I'd say that any recent increases in religious conviction in the West are largely caused by immigration from more religious nations, especially due to the refugee crisis in Europe, where a huge majority of refugees are Muslims. This doesn't apply much to the US, but the US does accept many immigrants every year even if they are not refugees.

To answer Khalpz's question, once again, I agree with 898ppp to an extent. As time progresses and fewer members of Western society will be religious, it is statistically likely that a non-Christian president wins an election, not because atheists will vote for atheists, but because the number of atheist presidential candidates will increase, so an atheist will win by chance. However, I don't think that has to be too far into the future. Religious non-affiliation is sharply on the rise in the US and in pretty much every Western nation, so it may not be long until most of the population is atheistic, and by extension, most of the presidential candidates. Most of the young people who grow up today are atheists, so they increase the numbers every year and will continue to do so quicker than we think.

Fun fact: Bernie Sanders is actually Jewish, and he's actually not doing too badly in the Democrat primaries and caucuses. He isn't an atheist, but if we're lucky, he may just be the next president (I do not agree with Bernie on many things, but I don't care as long as Hillary and Trump are out), therefore becoming the first Jewish and the first non-Christian President of the United States.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:25 am  Post subject: Re: Do you see there ever being a non Christian President?  
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Hi Kubi:

I think that Christianity is undergoing a geographic shift. Here are two facts: 1) Christianity did not originate in the West; rather, it came from the East, and 2) Jesus Christ, who is born in the Middle East, is probably Asian, as the Mideast is part and parcel of the continent of Asia. Nevertheless, over the years, it is true that the majority of Christians were Europeans and Americans. Unfortunately, some of the undesirable effects that the French Revolution and the Darwinian theory of particles-to-human evolution had on society included the respective notions that it is irrational to believe in any Supreme Being, and everything in the cosmos can be explained materially. Nevertheless, Christianity is growing parts of Asia, and, it should be duly noted, that the growth of Chinese and Korean Christianity is exponential, and is also practiced by indigenous Asian tribes, such as the Lisu, the Miao, the Yi, the Kachin, the Chin, the Karen, the Karenni, and the Rawang, to cite a few instances. Hence, ironically, the United States might confront a situation where a good percentage of Christians supporting a particular party might actually be Asian immigrants!

Constitutionally, it is always possible for an atheist to be president, but, unfortunately, those hopes might be dashed over the unending debate over whether or not evidence for Intelligent Design should be taught in the Science classroom, and whether or not is fair to demand that History, Literature, Philosophy, and Math be subject to the same material standards that Science uses to evaluate data. If an atheist candidate uses a "keep religions out of school," and advances the notion that Christianity is based on mythology, and, therefore, has no basis in technological society, he or she probably will not become president, as many Christian voters will clearly steer clear from this sort of candidate. Nevertheless, if the atheist running for president urges tolerance for non-theistic perspectives while, simultaneously, not trying to tear at the Christian fabrics from which the great country of the United States of America is woven, then I think that individual has a good opportunity of becoming president.

Take care,
QP


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